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Turn Zero Skills?

Discussion in 'Rules suggestions' started by WiT?, Apr 9, 2022.

  1. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    The simplest balancing measure for alpha strikes in Infinity has already been suggested above but needs to be highlighted here:

    More strategic use of command tokens by the second player. Use of -more than one- command token would be a powerful balancing element, but with a fair price in those precious tokens.

    The question is how many tokens should be allowed. Even 2 is a big boost. 4 might be too much. Starting with 2 seems wise.

    Also expand options for Command Tokens with two or more new defensive options
    - EVO hackers getting to start with a program up (a la N3, as others have mentioned)
    - Minelayers getting to place an additional deployable.
    - [Anyone have other ideas?]

    Being able to remove 2 orders from the First Player’s pool -and- start a unit in Suppression Fire would be a big help fending off a Bear for example (Sforza’s stock goes up even further…).

    Or ding them 2 orders and limit Coordinated Orders to 1.

    Or have an EVO program running and a Supp Fire trooper dug in.

    Or double your defensive repeater net, board-edge mine coverage, etc.

    Anyways- it’s the simplest step that could address some of the current alpha issues.

    Infinity has gone through cycles of alpha-ing problems before: N2 was pretty bad, N3 was decent (I do think EVO helped), N4 has swung back. Minor adjustments with existing tools can probably fix it.
     
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  2. RolandTHTG

    RolandTHTG Still wandering through the Night

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    @Savnock
    Instead of Minelayers getting to place another, why not have the Token allow any unit to place a deployable, in the same manner as if they used the Place Deployable skill. So the new item would be next to the unit, and you've have to reveal a camouflaged unit, but otherwise would allow players to start with a repeater, mine, or drop bear out on the board adjacent to an existing unit.
     
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  3. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    That’s a good rule, and would be well worth a token!

    CB seems to favor small adjustments using existing rules, so I was aiming low with Minelayer. Your suggestion seems balanced to me, but might give a designer pause (chance to get zero-cost Minelayers).

    I think they’d find yours the better rule eventually, but if we want a balancing measure for alphas -now-, it’s good to have both approaches available.
     
  4. RolandTHTG

    RolandTHTG Still wandering through the Night

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    I guess I still saw the following advantages for Minelayer over the token placement
    1) Gets it for free, no command token cost needed.
    2) Can place anywhere in ZOC, doesn't have to be adjacent to the model
    3) Can place it down & stay in camouflage/impersonation. Using Place Deployable with a command token would take a unit out of marker state.
     
  5. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    I see all that: the token-placing thing is definitely not at risk of being overpowered.

    What I’m saying is that it might be easier to get CB to bite on allowing an existing setup-phase skill (Minelayer) to be used a second time via a Command token than it would be to get CB to add another new rule (figuring out how executing the Place Deployable skill before the game starts affects things).

    It’s kinda splitting hairs I guess: your Place Deployable rule could be more useful to more armies, and is generally a better idea I think. There’s already text for going into Supp Fite and how it might cancel states etc., so your idea is good there too.

    In fact maybe the best idea is to allow your Place Deployable as one option, and using Minelayer a second time as another separate option.

    Either way, I think modifying Strategic Use of Command Tokens to fit the suggestions above (allowing 2 tokens for second player, adding running an EVO program and deploying an additional deployable as options) is worth playtesting.

    If I TOed, I might house rule it for a tourney to see what happens, even. My guess is Bearpodes and DZ paratroopers are slightly less horrifying and more balanced games happen in general.
     
  6. joedj

    joedj Member

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    Use one Command token to remove 2 orders from opposing model group OR to place 3 friendly models in suppressive fire or Imp2 mode. (models obviously must have the weapon or skill to accomplish this)
     
  7. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    That’s too heavy-handed. It could make going second far more powerful than going first.

    Spending more tokens to get more defensive benefits, with a moderate ceiling (like 2 tokens), yes. Getting more defensive benefits for a single token, probably too much.
     
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  8. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    I find all of the command token defensive skills to be bandaids rather than addressing the real issues. Would rather not add more of them honestly
     
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