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The Good Guys Wear Orange - An RTF Blog

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Grotnib, Oct 29, 2020.

  1. sololobo

    sololobo Well-Known Member

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    @Grotnib

    Hey Grotnib, I know you are still learning and experimenting with the new rules and profiles in RTF. But, do you have a preferred Zhayedan or Jannissary link list? I struggle to building a synergistic RTF list due to the super trooper costs, so I wanted to see what you deploy with. It doesn’t need to be perfect, no such thing, so no pressure.
     
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  2. Urist

    Urist Well-Known Member

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    @sololobo

    I'm not Grot, but I can share my feelings.

    Zhayedan look fantastic to supplement a ghulam core, but I wouldn't go too hard with them. An HMG to be the pointman, then fill the rest with regular Ghulam picks based on the mission to keep it cheap. I plan to try out having a Zhayedan Missile tonight too, but it seems pricy when I need to save money for Mukhtar/Nahab/Tuareg. I think most of the Zhayedan profiles look nice though, except maybe the doc (who can now be replaced by half price ghulam doc).

    Jannisary fireteams are more rough, because the best Jannisary fireteams to me have only the minimum amount. The core is way too expensive without wildcards, and with wildcards you only get +1BS making it a massive investment for little gain. I would probably choose a Haris of your favorite Jannisary, a Hortlak, and then a Wildcard of choice. For me I think that's probably Jann HMG, Hortlak and then Rouhani. Should gunfight decent, Hortlak can deal with skirmishers, rouhani keeps them alive. A fun one to me looks like Jann doc, Al Fasid HMG, then Hortlak/Yara to capitalize on the smoke grenades.
     
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  3. vorthain

    vorthain Veteran Novice

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    I have been strongly considering the Zhayedan ML in a Ghulam link as well, but he does seem a tad expensive for essentially ARO duty. It seems like the better plan is supplementing a Zhayedan team with Ghulams. I think the only problem is, as you point out and is also my position, that you want the point team to often be Nahabs, Mukhtars, Tuaregs, or now the Namurr, so I'm not sure I'd necessarily want to spend orders moving Zhayedans+Ghulams around. On the other hand, a Ghulam ML and Shaytinayah SML are about the same points cost (with twice the SWC), but the latter can benefit from Mukhtar spotlighting.

    Right now, I'm thinking about something along these lines. Ghulam(ish) core, Namurr+Mukhtars to run around, overwatching Shihab, disposable Carmen and Batard, then Tuareg and Nahab to jump into group 1 when the dog and bike go down.


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    NAFFATÛN (Lieutenant) Rifle, Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)
    GHULAM (Doctor [+3]) Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    GHULAM Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 16)
    ZHAYEDAN Missile Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 28)
    NAMURR (Tactical Awareness) Breaker Rifle, Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Heavy Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (0 | 41)
    MUKHTAR (Multispectral Visor L2) Red Fury, Nanopulser(+1B) ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 36)
    MUKHTAR (Hacker, Hacking Device) Rifle, Light Shotgun, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 31)
    SHIHAB REMOTE Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 24)
    CARMEN Chain Rifle(+1B), Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol(+1B), DA CC Weapon. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] BÂTARD Trench-Hammer, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2
    NAHAB (Parachutist, Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Submachine Gun, E/Mitter, Nanopulser ( ) / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
    TUAREG (Doctor [+3]) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 33)
    5.5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army


    Alternatively, we could drop the Zhayedan who, versus the Ghulam ML, is basically +1 BS (or +4 BS assuming you are shooting someone in cover), +1 ARM/+3 BTS, and some other stuff that won't often come up (e.g., Regeneration with a Ghulam doc at hand) for 11 points to free up some points, swap the Shihab for a Shaytinayah if you want to be nasty with the Mukhtar for another few points, or grab a Monstrucker for DropBears to guard the DZ. Such a high effective BS on the Zhayedan is hard to pass up but having more bodies is often better.
     
    #283 vorthain, Apr 14, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2022
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  4. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
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    I've played RTF for a quite long time when it appeared, so few years ago, mainly working on fireteam of Khawarij with their amir. Sometimes mixing them with Ghulam.
    At the start of 2022 I thought that it's a good time to come back to Ramah with all the N4 changes and play them in our league.
    And with the current changes the idea is even better. We're having a tournament on 23rd April and I'm thinking of taking a Core of Ghulam + Zhay ML + Zhay HMG. I like aggresive ARO and don't mind using Zhay for that purpose. I'm also planning on trying Namurr for the first time, propably Spit in Haris with Rouhani and maybe Yara. Plus definitely Carmen, because she always did a good job for me. Plus Shihab, Leila, maybe Beasthunter.
    I'll try to tell you how it went after the games :)


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
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  5. vorthain

    vorthain Veteran Novice

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    Namurr with spitfire is nicer with BS13, but Tactical Awareness on the breaker rifle version is too good to pass up for the 'free' order.
     
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  6. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    They did a great job of balancing the options as the spitfire profile has the e-marat: it has a tool for everything.

    Looking at Ramah I think there are two new options that will have a large impact on link teams: Beasthunter FTO and Fiddler FTO. A 9 point link filler is insane for the expensive Super soldier teams and brings a very useful kit. Fiddler can bring a great specialist and drop bears. Both can also superjump with the Khawarijs.

    I really want to try a Namurr Haris with:
    • Namurr Spitfire
    • Namurr Tac Aware
    • Beasthunter FTO.
    It has all the great tools, 2 specialists, Mines, e-marat, heavy flamer, and burst 5 spitfire. The Beasthunter slows the link a little, but brings so much value. The only thing is the irregular FTO order is wasted without a Command token. Or instead of the Beasthunter, you could take a Mukhtar instead. There are so many cool options now.
     
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  7. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    In a faction with fairly limited midfield options I can't help but feel the FD+Camo Beasthunters are more useful than one in a Fireteam, I don't actually play Ramah though, so could be mistaken.
     
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  8. sololobo

    sololobo Well-Known Member

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    I’m of the same mind on that point. RTF has little disruption to keep the enemy off balance minus a Nahab, who is already expensive. But now, we have a Beast Hunter. Overall, RTF is becoming easier to field. Deny flank supported by a fire base seems to be its jam as a double pincer is too costly.
     
    #288 sololobo, Apr 16, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2022
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  9. vorthain

    vorthain Veteran Novice

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    I almost always field a Nahab but maybe I should try Beasthunters for that role. I'm not crazy about putting them in a 4 or 5 man link to lose composition bonus. On a side note, I am surprised the tac bow and panzerfaust have the same value. Which seems better? PF only has two strong shots but starting closer means you are less likely to be in a good range band; tacbow range overlaps with flamethrower though. I need the Nadhir to do double duty for that unit.

    Fiddler having peripherals is nice but she is in same price bracket as the super soldiers I actually want to use in RTF. Plus she is a bit silly looking.
     
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  10. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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    @Urist gave an excellent answer that reflects my thoughts very closely! If I was to give advice to someone looking to field Zhayedans and/or Janissaries, I'd advice them to build a mostly Ghulam Fireteam Core and then add a Zhayedan HMG, Sniper or Missile Launcher as the deadly pointman/woman to take advantage of the full Fireteam Bonuses, but taking two might be an overkill! When it comes to Janissaries, I'm afraid that the modern Fireteam rules don't really support taking a full Pure Core of them. so I'd stick to a Haris of some type... I'm currently looking to test a Al Fasid Heavy Rocker Launcher (+1B), Namurr Tactical Awareness and Janissary Doctor (+1W) Haris - the Al Fasid get to fire his HRL at a whopping Burst 4(!), the Namurr can both motor the Haris around and defend it at close quaters, and the Janissary Doctor has two potential 2W patients with Cubes to heal! The Fireteam is expensive, but there sure is a tremendous amount utility and combat power to be used there too! When it comes to list building, you could take both the Fireteams mentioned above, throw in a couple of Fanous Flashpulse Bots, a Forward Deploying Beasthunter, a Warcor and Carmen&Bâtard, and still enough points for the 14th and 15th models of your choice! Hope that helps, and thanks again @Urist for your advice!

    Please do, I'd love to hear about your experiences! :)

    I agree! RTF does have some excellent midfield options, but they're so expensive that you don't want to expend them to slow down the enemy if possible - the 15 point Beasthunter is such a great tool for defending the midfield that I'm finding it hard to write lists without them these days!

    I'm afraid it's Panzerfausts all the way! I want to make the Tactical Bow work, but as you said, when you're in the Bow's optimal range, you'd rather use the Heavy Flamethrower - or the Burst 2 Pistol if you're looking to contest enemy rolls! The Panzerfaust gives you credible (if not reliable) threat projection against most targets both on the active and the reactive turn...

    The list looks interesting! The only thing that I was thinking was, that as you don't have a way of repairing the Shihab, you could always swap it for three Fanous Bots and a Warcor, so as to spread the AROs around and to fuel your second group with Orders! ;)
     
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  11. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
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    I definitely prefer the Panzerfaust option, it has so much more damage potential for scary ARO.

    And about Namurrs - I know that Tactical Awareness is great, especially with max 15 units now, but I feel that loosing E-Marat is a bit disadvantage for that profile. I want my Namurr to be able to take on a firefight in medium range and - if I go against a TAG - to be able to finish it off. Or just try ;)

    My first idea for an army is this:
    300 RTF Namurr itp
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    ZHAYEDAN Missile Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 28)
    ZHAYEDAN (BS Attack [Shock]) Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 33)
    GHULAM (Doctor [+3]) Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    GHULAM (Lieutenant [+1 Command Token]) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    GHULAM Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
    NAMURR Spitfire, E/Marat, D-Charges / Heavy Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (1 | 43)
    YARA HADDAD AP Marksman Rifle / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    ROUHANI Submachine Gun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 21)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    CARMEN Chain Rifle(+1B), Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol(+1B), DA CC Weapon. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] BÂTARD Trench-Hammer, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 5)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]1
    SHIHAB REMOTE Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 24)
    LEILA SHARIF (Hacker) Shock Marksman Rifle, E/M Mines, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 20)
    RAFIQ REMOTE Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 14)
    NAFFATÛN Rifle, Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    BEASTHUNTERS (Surprise Attack [-3], Camouflage, Forward Deployment [+8"]) Heavy Flamethrower, Panzerfaust, AP Mines / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 15)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army



    Maybe I'll change that a bit. And definitely will make another one for the upcoming tournament.


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
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  12. vorthain

    vorthain Veteran Novice

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    Yes, panzerfaust probably is better, even without limited camouflage. Though I don't know about swapping Shihab for three Fanous...being able to actually down something with ARO is a powerful incentive. But a Shihab could trade for Fanous and Beasthunter. Wouldn't help with orders but it would add another ARO piece.
     
  13. Gwynbleidd

    Gwynbleidd Non asto coram malo

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    A very interesting list. I can certainly see it’s merits. I may have to steal it and give it a go though I’ll have to proxy for Carmen and Batard. Though at the moment I’m trying to field the gigantic slab of metal that is my Maghariba guard…
     
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  14. sololobo

    sololobo Well-Known Member

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    I got a neat little list for RTF to post. How do I post it where it details the units instead of the code?
     
  15. Danger Rose

    Danger Rose The Wrecking Belles

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    @sololobo
    It's an option only available in the Web based Army 7:
    [​IMG]

    That opens a Sybilla window with the code that you copy-paste and get this:


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]4 [​IMG]1
    NAMURR (Tactical Awareness) Breaker Rifle, Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Heavy Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (0 | 41)
    NAHAB (Parachutist, Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
    MUKHTAR (Hacker, Hacking Device) Rifle, Light Shotgun, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 31)
    HAKIM Submachine Gun, Chain-colt / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    [​IMG] NASMAT A2 PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 4)

    0.5 SWC | 132 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  16. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Some phones also have a "scroll" button when you take a screenshot that will let you capture the whole list in one image.
     
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  17. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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    I'm all for the good old reliable Shihab, but to me it's "thing" is the fact that it has two levels of unconcious, and thus it can be repaired right back up after it get's knocked out, unless you're unlucky enough to suffer three wounds on one go! Unfortunately the robotic guardian only has a realistic chance of taking out an attacker than doesn't outrange it, fire through smoke, employ Mimestism or employ full Fireteam Bonuses... And that's an awfull long list of things that can take out a 24 point piece reliably in one Order! :(

    I'm afraid that these days the ease at which you can just slot in a 27 point Zhaydedan Sniper into your Ghulam Core means that the Shihab doesn't make it into my lists unless I'm going REM heavy (for example because I know I'm playing against Tohaa), as in this case I'm already packing all the neccessary support elements (that is, an Engineer and an EVO Hacker) to get every mile out of my Shihab...

    But please don't let my opinion stiffle your creativity; give the Shihab some runs and let us all know how you found it in your list's context! :)
     
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  18. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Please, steal it and try it for yourself ;)
    I'm also proxying Carmen from the start - with Zuleyka - and I bought earlier K-9 antipode for fun, so I have my girl/dog team ;)

    About Shihab - I really like that mini and that profile plus it usually works well for me. 4 shots in ARO is great.
    Just to give 3 simple examples: My REM destroyed Blackjack in ONE ARO (3 critical hits in one burst - hence the "trophy" on his base). Destroyed Mukhtar in one burst. Destroyed Achilles in two bursts. I know it's luck, but it just happens from time to time. It's nice to have such chance, especially, that I like playing with aggressive ARO and I usually try to position my AROing guys helping each other.


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
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  19. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    Is anyone using the improved RTF availability and playing two Shibabs?
     
  20. vorthain

    vorthain Veteran Novice

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    I used this list against Tunguska:


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    GHULAM (Lieutenant) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
    GHULAM (Doctor [+3]) Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)
    GHULAM Missile Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 17)
    ZHAYEDAN Missile Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 28)
    CARMEN Chain Rifle(+1B), Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol(+1B), DA CC Weapon. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] BÂTARD Trench-Hammer, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    NAHAB (Parachutist, Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
    NAMURR (Tactical Awareness) Breaker Rifle, Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Heavy Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (0 | 41)
    MUKHTAR (Hacker, Hacking Device) Rifle, Light Shotgun, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 31)
    MUKHTAR (Multispectral Visor L2) Red Fury, Nanopulser(+1B) ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 36)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    TUAREG (Doctor [+3]) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 33)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    BEASTHUNTERS (Surprise Attack [-3], Camouflage, Forward Deployment [+8"]) Heavy Flamethrower, Panzerfaust, AP Mines / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    5.5 SWC | 298 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    My main takeaways are:
    1 - Zhayedans linkable with (and counting as) Ghulams is huge. Now they can leverage their Marksmanship without needing to pay to have multiple Zhayedans at 30ish points each. Two ML was probably a bit overkill but I had the point and SWC versus the sniper.
    2 - I didn't use Carmen and Batard very well due to some good overwatching enemies. However, I thought all antipodes at Total Immunity but that seems to be an exception for Duroc and Dogwarriors. Oh well, Batard got blown up by a mine but that's what he's for.
    3 - Namurr+Mukhtars was very good. The Red Fury + MSV2 was a real hero (killed a Grenzer, Raoul Spector, and the bike transformer), the hacker was good doing objectives, and the Namurr's Total Immunity and Climbling Plus got her in a good frontline zone at the end of the game. I think a similar thing could have been done by Namurr + Khawarijs for approximately the same cost (with doc and NCO), but I'm unsure about trading the Mukhtar's mimetism and NWI for Khawarij's armor and damage.
    4 - Beasthunter didn't get to use his panzerfaust because he was swarmed by puppets but he wasted some of their orders. Those little puppets are pretty annoying - something so small with so much gear and a second STR!
    5 - Nahab is a monster (which is common knowledge). Usually I opt for the hacker/SMG version but especially against a couple Interventors, not being a hacker was a blessing and I was able to catch multiple Securitates with the shotgun. Plus the D-charges were much better against the Interventors' BTS 9 than viral CCW. I'm convinced.
     
    #300 vorthain, Apr 21, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2022
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