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IA fireteam changes

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Mahtamori, Mar 24, 2022.

  1. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Druze are up there, too. They can mix Druze Shock team, Arslan, Brawlers, Diggers, Taowu and Aida Swanson FTO into a coherent core.
    That's both flexible and hard hitting. Not sure if all of that was intended tbh.
     
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  2. Miraclebutt

    Miraclebutt Well-Known Member

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    It has to be. Druze has been getting shit on nonstop since they were a faction and every single mercenary release has given them something to play with. Now it's all come together and they're more than just an E/M Grenade slinging gimmick.
     
  3. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    I hope it is. I've been wanting Druze to be more appealing since forever.
     
  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I think that's probably fine, it's mostly 1W stuff, it's not 4 Fusiliers cheerleading an ORC with a big gun or Shang Ji and 4 idiots.

    Links with 1W fighters are more likely to need constant refills to maintain combat effectiveness.

    For now my plan is just to keep playing like I'm pretending the fireteam rules didn't change and see if playing with the reduced effectiveness of mixed links has any major impact. Right now there's only one thing I immediately have my eye on and it's with the Haidao getting worse the Dakini core might require a Hac Tao to solve it even more but we'll see.
     
    #24 Triumph, Mar 25, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2022
    Knauf likes this.
  5. Enolkys

    Enolkys Member

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    Edit - some one sent me a better explanation. Thanks :)
     
    #25 Enolkys, Mar 29, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022
  6. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I'm glad to see them get some love with these rules but I think the wider meta issues of alpha striking and DTW spam is still gonna hurt this core team focus a lot. There's no resilience in that force and druze are more expensive than some 2w troops. It will be interesting to see how it pans out as the tourney season goes on
     
  7. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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    HMMMmmm... I don't see the problem.
    • Son-bae+3 zhanshi+gongcheng: BS13 on ML and 12 on combi zhanshi, but a Aro piece easily recoverable and can be assisted by supportware
    • Zhanshi ML+4 zhanshi: BS on14s on ML and the rest of the zhanshis. BS 12 after loosing 1 member. but an aro piece that will probably leave a bloody crater behind that has to be recovered (if) by a B2-PH10 paramedic (no reroll)
    In my opinion, both versions are pretty much on the same level but on diverting paths.

    jing-qo+shaolin+shangjesus... or, Liang Kai+shaolin+shangjesus! game on bitches!

    there are other interesting options, like putting leigong on that fireteam with an MSV1 smoke combo on close ranges, forcing the oponent to dodge while you advance and shoot. (or direct template someone)

    I frigging love this fireteam
     
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  8. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Smoke baiting with BS attacks only works for Hackers now. They can pick BS Attack and the check for whether it's legal option happens after you've selected your second short skill.
     
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I've had problems motivating a Son-Bae in Zhanshi fireteams for a while, it's a lot to do with the real estate they take up and the likelihood of being used actively. In general I don't like missile launchers, and to make it actually worth while I have to bring a Panggolin which is more real estate and can't defend itself from either shots or hacking, not to mention having a mechanical unit in the link means extra considerations for recovery since the paramedic can't do it. It's more doable in IA than WB due to the Gongcheng linkability, but I still don't rate it highly. If I feel forced to bring a ML I will opt for the Zhanshi.

    Son-Bae in a Zuyong core was pretty decent when it could get the full bonus and marksmanship stacked on top - a zuyong centric list would naturally have more room for a Pango. It filled an additional role of reducing the price of a fairly costly link.

    Plus, given the role that Zhanshi in general tend to have to shoulder of close range ablative defence, I think the discover bonus is actually really important.
     
  10. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    The Son-Bae has been pretty damn close to auto include for me for the entire time IA has been around.
    • It doesn't need a Pango, Marksmanship is nice but not required. I think in the entirety of the time I've used it I've buffed it exactly once with Marksmanship.
    • The Paramedic is a non issue, IA generally has engineers around that can do something to help it if necessary because only an idiot is leaving home without one for IA in this meta. Frequently they are linked together because Krit bringing NCO to a core link has always been good.
    • It's a flex piece not a primary ARO unit. It can pull ARO duties, but adding it to the list also brings an existential threat to your opponent trying to creep into the midfield where it's highly likely you can get them spotlit. Against opponents that I don't think guided is going to get much mileage I'll place it more aggressively to get it to soak enemy orders. Decent chance I can keep recovering the Son Bae given the general resilience of REMs, but if not then no big deal it was 16pts refill the link and move on.
    Also White Banner can't stick them in Zhanshi fireteams.
     
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  11. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I'm really not liking how IA came out so far with my lists. The Haidao was a staple for me and now he automatically makes anything mixed. I they are still good but I feel like it's too much for them. I can understand why the sniper needed some nerfing but now I'm not using my ENG or Hacker. The only hacker I can put into a Zuyong team is the Shang Ji and of course you really want the APHMG. So I'm a little disappointed so far for them. But I'm loving WB more and ISS.
     
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  12. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I've just ignored the changes and kept building the fireteams as I did before. Doesn't seem to have had a major impact on things.
     
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  13. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I think that's just the way it is for IA. So I to an leaving my lists as is. There doesn't even seem to be interesting combos that I couldn't do before.
     
  14. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I've used the Gongcheng sometimes when I want to save a few points instead of Jeong. Can also sit spare Zhanshi as part of a Haris while they're waiting to refill the core.
     
  15. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    There's one team I can't figure out the point of. The Shock Fireteam. Hulang FTO? Why combine those monsters with the relatively squishy Hulang? The Hulang falls to combi-rifles! I've tried taking him from the start and NEVER accomplished anything of note. All profiles. The FTO did work well once killing a Riot Grrl in CC and then died to something else. The firepower that's going to go after then Guijia or Mowang are going to turn him into paste with one shot.
     
  16. Steppenwolf

    Steppenwolf Member

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    The experience has been the opposite for me re. the Hulang. The ODD really helps with his durability, and most of my opponents will avoid trying to hunt him down with traditional means when he's positioned properly, as he's too much of a pain in the ass to deal with at 0-16" for only a medium priority threat. His job is to secure the midfield against other specialists, which he does a fine job of by tanking mines, putting pressure on objectives, using intuitive attacks, and cc. I find using him as a dedicated attack piece is not optimal and will result in you losing your expensive specialist very quickly.
     
  17. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I think he is specifically referring to putting Hulang in a Shock Fireteam which is Hulang, Guijia, and Mowang duos.

    I don't think the idea is to combine those 3 models for a Shock Fireteam, it's to make a duo of them +1 Wildcard. With that said I'm still not convinced any Hulang duo is worth it.

    I have been using the general Hulang FTO wildcard though in Core and Haris teams. That's been pretty solid.
     
  18. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    Shock Fireteam seems to exist to duplicate the effect of those models having Duo in their skills before the change.

    I’m very mildly annoyed that Haidao didn’t get the (Invincibles) label—sticking one in a link full of HI is still super expensive, and it’s feasible to run pure Bolt/Bagh/Kamau links that can still do the full fire superiority thing for less points than the minimum equivalent Invincibles link. It doesn’t bother me at all to have lost pure bonuses for haidao in a zhanshi link, though. I’ve run zuyong/shang ji/haidao MSR links since N4 dropped and they’re good IMO but not game-breaking.

    TBH my main issue with IA still hasn’t changed, and it’s sort of a small whinge: I want some of the profiles to have more internal competitiveness. Multi HMG yan huo needs something, red fury haidao is hard to justify in a list, and Qiang Gao is better but still has a rough time when compared with other hmg platforms in the sectorial.

    Bøyg ML in a Haris is making me a teensy bit salty since he’s effectively a better Yan Huo, but on reflection that has more to do with wishing CB would tweak our S5 trooper profiles just a tad to suit the current state of N4.
     
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  19. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    The Ratnik being the second S5 HI to be allowed to go B6 in a link annoys me more than the Boyg.
     
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  20. Henshini

    Henshini Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the Yan Huo has been completely left behind and other sectorials have way scarier units than the Mowang can link. It's weird.
     
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