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Playing Defiance on Tabletop Simulator

Discussion in 'General' started by Child9, Apr 6, 2022.

  1. Child9

    Child9 Well-Known Member

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    Hi everyone,

    We tried the first missions of Infinity Defiance last week-end with friends, that are unfortunately living afar, making it impossible to play on a regular basis to play the full campaign.
    I saw that several people worked on putting Defiance on Tabletop Simulator, did anyone of you try it? If yes, which one did you choose (different users uploaded stuff)? How easy was it to play with? Would you recommand it?

    Thanks a lot!
    Romain
     
  2. Alfy

    Alfy Well-Known Member

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    Errr... Just pointing out your talking about completely unofficial digital adaptations that are produced without CBs agreeing to them on CB's official website. I understand you might own the physical version, but that does still not make those mods legal...
     
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  3. Child9

    Child9 Well-Known Member

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    Fair point, I didn't think about the legal aspect here, as it doesn't seem detrimental to CB in any way right now.
    Do you think it is plainly illegal? I know absolutely nothing about these issues...Basically, what people do is importing existing (or scanned) images into Tabletop Simulator.
    CB position about that matter would be interesting. And of course, if this is not something they agree with, could a moderateur delete/lock this topic?
    Thanks.
     
  4. bladerunner_35

    bladerunner_35 Well-Known Member

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    They are not selling it.

    They have been very friendly with the TTS community regarding Infinity.

    It’s a perfectly fair question (unless mods tell you it isn’t). Can’t help you personally though.
     
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  5. Alfy

    Alfy Well-Known Member

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    Frankly, yeah, the mods on TTS, like most mods on TTS, are plainly illegal. But then a lot of game board publishers have taken a relaxed stance towards the whole thing. But most still also don’t officially condone them because that could be used against them in the future (failing to protect copyrights and such). I might have overreacted in my post above: if your thread does not get locked or deleted, then I guess CB chooses to take that middle stance and you’ll probably never hear anything from the mods one way or the other about it…

    Sorry for that and hoping someone can give an answer to your questions!
     
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  6. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Curious, where are you from? You sound like somebody entrenched in the US copyright system and a poor understanding of it as well.

    They're perfectly legal, especially in the EU. They're non-commercial, transformative (change of medium!), etc.
     
  7. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Many board game publishers -pay- people to put their stuff on TTS or Tabletopia. I’ve personally done it. It’s more useful as a sales tool (letting customers and potential foreign publishing partners try the game out without spending 100 € on another demo copy) than the small impact on actual purchases that digital replacement of the play experience might make.

    Defiance is an interesting case because republication is unlikely or at least iffy. It might be a positive thing here much like the bootleg versions of the Dune boardgame were: sustaining interest in the product and increasing the likelihood of a possible future republication, all without any expenditure on the property owner’s part.

    At the very least, they are not losing any sales over it.
     
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  8. Wizzy

    Wizzy Well-Known Member

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    TTS Mods without editor's consent, it's like this practice of some european countries that allow to use front companies to offer to their ssii to get european subsidies beyond the ceiling, it's not legal, but often the main interested parties close their eyes for political reasons.
    In France, on Tric Trac website which is an influential blog where many French editors are present, there are regularly editors who come to complain about these TTS mods and some of them are removed.

    One of the articles of these editors against the tts mods:
    https://www.trictrac.net/actus/tabletop-simulator-le-piratage-massif-decomplexe
    https://www-trictrac-net.translate....l=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fr&_x_tr_pto=wapp

    But is not a problem, Corvus Belli allows this mod, they probably would have upload it themselves like for TAG Raid.
     
  9. Mcgreag

    Mcgreag Well-Known Member

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    Would be nice but do remember that only a few weeks ago someone asked if they could scan the rulebook, make a pdf of it and link it here and was told no.
     
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  10. Alfy

    Alfy Well-Known Member

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    But none of that matters. Valve is a US company and the content of the workshops is available in the US.

    Edit: also note that the points you mention are actually not applicable to people who share the mods and those who support them doing that (Valve, in this case). In the EU, you are entitled to the equivalent of fair-use: making a copy of something in another format for ease of usage or safeguarding purposes. You are still not allowed to distribute them. Doing it for a few friends is ok, doing it widely is not. So while it hasn’t been tested yet, TTS mods are most certainly not legal in Europe.
     
    #10 Alfy, Apr 10, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2022
  11. Vaulsc

    Vaulsc Well-Known Member

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    We've directly communicated with CB management about playing their games on TTS. They even ran an infinity N4 ITS event on TTS. They made their own mod of TAGraid for people to use on TTS without making it a paywalled DLC option. Bostria drops in on our chat-group on discord to talk about photogrammetry for getting models into 3D, and sometimes gives us CB assets (terrain and models) to use in our games.

    Any anti-TTS sentiment here is pretty out of touch at this point.
     
  12. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    This is not true. What you're claiming would check out if the work was not transformative. Had I photocopied or PDF scanned an Infinity rulebook, then yes, I'd only be allowed to share it withing the family/friends immediate circle. This is however not about "fair use", it's about actual copyright of a separate, derivative and transformative work of art.

    When I make an Infinity fan movie, a yet non-exisitng translation of the Infinity ruleset, a board game about Angry Angry Morats or a fan module for a 3D online version of the physical game - as long as it's distribution is non-commercial - it is perfectly legal in EU.

    And just as @Vaulsc stated above, the company doesn't mind anyway - which is extremely laudable and has definitely helped the game survive the last COVID years.
     
  13. Child9

    Child9 Well-Known Member

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    Even if I'm interested in the legal aspects of the question, please allow me to remind the initial topic... ;)

    Did anyone of you try playing Defiance on TTS? If yes, which version did you choose from the workshop? How easy was it to play with? Would you recommand it? Thanks! :)
     
  14. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    This game is out-of-production. You can't buy it anymore in neither CB store or any other store. It is not in retail anymore. I doubt they would object to it being in TTS.
     
  15. Lucian

    Lucian Catgirl Nation

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    And yet, they clearly don't want the books being scanned and posted (there's no official PDF rules AND it is out of production with no way of getting it other than ebay and that one-time leftovers sale) which is a bit different from regular Infinity and TAGraid situation that has official free PDF rules.
    How will you play in TTS unless you have a rulebook on hands?
     
  16. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    that is an extra incentive for them not to go after the TS Mod, since the Mod doesn't include any rules/missions you can't play unless you were a KS Backer.
     
  17. Lucian

    Lucian Catgirl Nation

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    Oh, I think that would make an already tiny Defiance playerbase even smaller (since you *have* to own a box = no new players, and theres only 5300 backers worldwide). Who would justify putting any effort into making a mod for a handful of people?
     
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