Isnt it too much?

Totally agreed. It is kind of useful, but it shouldn't cost that much. Nerfing the jumping mechanism itself + taxing heavy points on it, is an unnecessary repetition of careless nerfs.

A TAG should not be costed 80 something points only because it has CC 22, MA2, Super Jump while having BS 14, PH 16, BTS 6, DA CCW.

I would not delve into the point mechanism of Infinity since it is against the forum rules, but there is a huge discordance between the cost of Guijia and other TAGs, which should not be neglected.

 

There are, but the issue is in how effortlessly it can be done by Nomads. If they want that in the game they should just remove all non-marker state Lts from the game.

 

I'm going to disagree on this. Decoys and CoC are a solution specifically to "LoL top of T1" but its not a solution to "Nomads can delete almost anything, almost unstoppably, top of T1 while you sit back and watch".

Most of the counterplay boiled down to "marker state everything important" or "hope the GML player fucks up somehow" or "reset, guts out of repeater range, tank the missile and hope you live". Many of the usual defensive considerations - terrain, concealment, lines of fire, defenders - went out the window in favor of some jank shit and a prayer.

Ultimately it overturns how the game functions by ignoring almost everything within the game. The Kamau did something similar, being a super ARO piece that was extremely difficult to sweep, and like the Kamau the game often became a simple binary of if this piece does its thing or not. I felt that was poor balance, and even if the balance was fine, it was shit gameplay.

 

I honestly think that GML alpha is the result of the null deploy meta. If your opponent hides everything, you have to invest a lot of orders to do any meaningful damage with an attack piece that wants to move across the board. The result is often 1-2 kills and then your attack piece is dead. This is why I think a lot of Nomad players use GML a lot. Give factions more fast/resilient attack pieces and maybe GML will go away.

 

Maybe. I mean, if the argument is that GML is here because alpha strikes are not good enough, and that current GML should be the floor of effective alpha, I'm not sure if I want to be around when the GML problem is 'fixed' - when alpha gets too strong there is no game to be played. (frankly I'd argue we are in that territory now at serious levels)

The problem with that logic though, is that there is always a sort of race for the perfect strategy amongst ultra competitive players. And the strategy that uses the word ignore the most is always going to have a position in such a race. GML ignores a lot of things, and so its always going to be in contention.

 

The null deploy is also a result of the alpha strike meta. The funny thing is that the protection I see people adopt against pitcher combat ('cause it's really not the GML) is to null deploy harder as this helps against being Spotlit and it helps against being bumrushed by bears, trains and imps.

 

The alpha's one component of guided. Even if you don't try to Alpha, it's still very strong. 2-3 orders spent launching pitchers almost always forces your opponent to spend considerably more orders responding. Whether it's sending in their own unit to find and kill those Repeaters, or risking their own Hackers trying to take out yours, or launching some kind of crazy deep strike to take out your guided missile bot, or simply resetting their way through all the various Hacking AROs, they're almost always spending far more orders navigating the problem. Agreed too with @Mahtamori that Pitchers are definitely at the core of the problem. If guided relied on running a REM up the field, or sneak a guy with Deployable Repeaters into the enemy DZ, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

100% agree. I guess the term "GML strategies" is misleading. Nobody cares if a shrouded HD sneaks next to your TAG and targets it. I also think the heckler is pretty abominable in this regard. Less sure about the hellcat dep.rep, its super powerful but reasonably standard defensive plays minimize it. Its only the repeater delivery services that are an issue and possibly the turn zero midfield repeaters, but thats a related but different shenanigan

 

I'll be very grateful if you respect the moderator @psychoticstorm while you don't agree his opinions (totally personal opinions) about the game.

And you can extend that respect to any other users in the forum, regardless who they are.

Thank you.

 

There are linked Pitchers in Bahram, OSS, Onyx, and now MAF, too. The thing is, all of these sectorials (though we'll be able to say more about MAF in a few months) have more weaknesses than Corregidor. You can work your way around them. Against Corregidor, you increasingly can't.

As for the GML itself, it has its place in the game. But it needs to be a high risk - high reward strategy. When you minimize the risks, especially in a faction that has all the toys, balance goes out of the window. So either make the tactic more risky to pull off, or make the whole thing more interactive. I'd start by bringing U-Turn back - on EVO HD, for example - and by providing a wider access to Zero Pain and allowing it to protect other troopers. But this in turn would nerf hackers more, and would require a wider hacking rebalancing.

So, for now, the main point is stop giving Corregidor all the toys. Since it all started with an RPG game... how much fun is it to play in a party with Game Master's Favourite NPC? How much fun is it to have Mary Sues' in your game?

 

The fact that we even have to have this discussion makes me sad. For someone who got into CJC because I like(d) the scruffy pragmatic underdog flair of the sectorial it is very disconcerting to see how my sectorial got new profile after new profile and each of them feeling at least slightly above the curve.

I don' t think a few better-than-average units push a sectorial over the top but they can be a concern when it comes to internal balance. What is definitely concerning to see though is when a growing number of them seem to just ignore the design space and fluff niche a sectorial is occupying defined by CB themselves on their website and their books.

To be fair nowhere does it state explicitly that Corregidor doesn't have full sized TAGs or HD+. It's the fact that all their fluff mentions repurposed mid-sized TAGs because bigger ones would be impractical in the confined space of spaceships. Geckos and Iguanas represent that perfectly and make CJC feel more unique playstyle-wise.
Now we for some reason and completely out of the blue get a full sized battle TAG with what at least feels like state-of-the-art technology and for a pointcost that seems very tough to justify.
Same thing happened with Jazz but she is an even worse offender in this regard.

I hope this seeming favouritism for Corgy is only a phase and they will with time bring all other sectorials up to Corregidors unit count as well as take a thorough look at the internal balance to tweak and fix some lil things to make lesser used units and profiles more appealing.

I doubt though that they will just take away units specifically designed for CJC so I will be stuck with Jazz and the Gator for the foreseeable future - reminders that CBs idea of how Corregidor should feel and play is very different of mine (and seemingly most of the community).

 

In the end, are there statistics showing that alleged Nomad/CJC domination? Games/tournaments victory percentages, etc... You know, in order to have a look at facts for once, rather than limited personal experience and theorycrafting.
This forum only gathers a tiny portion of all Infinity players, a microcosm amongst which just a handful of people are complaining about that "issue". 0.00something% of Infinity players repeating again and again and again that Nomads/CJC are breaking the game is not something I'd take for granted.
Last time I looked into that (in 2019/2020 probably) and if I remember correctly, all factions had about 50/50 victory/defeats ratio, with "extremes" around 45/55 and 55/45. Pretty much balanced, if you ask me, and certainly not horribly unbalanced. Did that change drastically over the past two years? Honest question here, honest answer (based on facts and proofs) expected please.

 

Like already mentioned. Drop Troopers, Skirmisher and so on.

Yes, you can attack them with everything. If you have a death wish. He just outshoots you. I can't win a firefight against a Jotums in Cover, so why should you win a hacking war against a very good hacker with a Tinbot? Asymmetrical Fighting. You just don't hack a hacker, you don't shoot a TAG and you don't fight a CC Specialist in CC.

And ... the Kamau can shoot everything, Jazz can only hack hackable targets.

That's interesting. Since when is Jazz shooting the Missiles? You realize that Jazz isn't shooting your Lieutentant? The problem is not Jazz. If you have a problem with GML, the problem is ... GML. Spotlighting something to shoot a missile at them is no Jazz-only-Trick. You can do it with every hacker.[/QUOTE]

Well, afair the Missile Bot is not even linkable in Corregidor. So you have problem with linkable hackers with Tinbots because you can't hack them to death. Well, like I said ... you can't shoot a Jotums in cover so... same problem. And ... Jazz is neither the only linkable hacker nor the only hacker with a Pitcher nor the only linkable hacker with a Pitcher.

You should reformulate your problem: You have no problem with Jazz (except maybe emotionally), you have a problem with linkable hackers, with tinbots and with Missile Bots. It's not that Jazz is the only hacker who can do these "tricks" (it's not even a trick, it's just shooting a Repeater, Spotlighting something and then fire a Missile at it, many hackers can do this)

I did not say that KHD "should" not be able to kill hackers, I say that KHD "are" not able to (reliably) kill (topnotch) hackers. I did not say this is good or bad. In N3 KHD were (maybe) a bit too powerfull, so everyone only used KHD. Right now I don't think they are.

 

I think this is a really effective and simple balance pass to help cjc come back into line, which would leave Jazz, Gator, Morans, etc. unharmed: make Vertigo Zonds ava0.

 

Lizard is shit and few people have it, fewer play it. If CB balances TAGs against Lizard they might as well not produce TAGs at all, cut the production costs and maybe discount other miniatures with money saved on TAG design and production.

Totally agree, I also think Guijia is overcosted.

Do you guys not see how comparing Gator to overcosted TAGs undermines the argument?
Kind of interesting how little screen time Raicho gets in this discussion, even though it is probably the most similar TAG to Gator. Maybe because Raicho is actually a solid piece so the comparison is less striking?

 

It's not enough, it's just your opinion. And it's easy to say "I'd even take it if it cost the double.". Might be true, if you have no other option. Might not be true if you remember you have Valerya.

I'd argue the opposite way: Even if Jazz was given for free in every Nomads list, she would not endanger balance.

 

Aside from the Avatar and Gator, all other TAGs have an internally consistent price. The HRMC TAGs offer great value because the HRMCs is cheap compared to the MHMGs, which is we see most apparent when you look at the Yan Huo - but not to a huge degree. Or maybe it's the MHMG that's expensive. Either way...

So that means comparing the Gator at all undermines arguments? Not even with the Lizard?
With that said, I'd be fine with adjustments being made to most TAGs to be more in line with Gator, particularly S7+ TAGs, as long as adjustments are made using consistent methods and the features added being in line with what factions can expect.

 

I killed a Jotum last weekend with a Kanren monofilament. That would have been a lot different if it had CC20+NBW. I don't think I had anything else that could have take down that Jotum other than luck.

 

Maybe the moral of this story is that one should build lists that doesn't rely on just one 20ish points CC specialist and luck to deal with Line TAGs...