How do you feel about Fireteam Rework?

Overall, yes. I think this new framework has alot of promise.

There's the odd things that I think have been overlooked. Off the top of my head.

• Tanko are designed from the ground up as a unit that is paired to Domaru to support them. They should either get tagged as Domaru or the unit be reworked.

• Aragoto are literally militarised gangs of motorbike enthused delinquents. Not being able to Haris seems like a huge missed opportunity.

• MAF, Winter Force, and Invincible Army are sectorials that by design give up alot and are rewarded by extremely good flexible fireteams. Post change it feels like only MAF is actually being rewarded for their sacrifices. Now that the vast majority of sectorials have super flexible fireteams IA and WinterFo feel like they either need to be given the things they gave up back, or get extended fireteams like MAF does.

• The Yan Huo continuing as a S5 HI denied a B6 link while fucking RATNIKS can now manage it as well as Nomads feels like an asinine insult to THE heavy infantry sectorial in THE heavy infantry faction.

• There's the odd Vanilla unit like So-Ra that can normally duo but seems to have been overlooked in their respective Vanilla factions for it.

• Taagma basically only being able to get value out of Tri-Core with humans, Brawlers, feels fucking weird and should probably be looked at.

• MRRF were already fucking pointless and just got worse with this update. That said MRRF needing a fix is old news and CB don't really appear to give a shit about them.

 

I feel like I should expand further on this point by discussing the Haidao.



There's probably other units that are falling into a similar situation but I just want to use this as an illustration. The Haidao was designed as a hyper flexible problem solving piece and a key unit in creating IA's strength of exceptional link flexibility.

Unfortunately being designed as a hyper efficient problem solver means he's literally the only place to get this gear.

The Engineer and CoC profiles are fine, they exist as a cheaper alternative to other sources of Engineer and CoC in the faction. In this regard, acting as a cheaper but non pure link option is good. Fits the goal of placing a reward on eschewing cut throat points efficiency in the name of buying more expensive units to reap a bigger reward.

However if you want a KHD? You have to take a Haidao. Want a hard MSV ARO piece? Haidao. Want an MSV2 high damage AP weapon to tackle the Avatar? Haidao. The player has no choice but to punish themselves, either by forgoing a tool they may need, or hurting the integrity of their fireteams. While a faction that has a broad spectrum of different options to problem solve with this might be fine but in a faction that is highly specialised like IA or WinterFo I don't think it is.

I think these units can still exist as a useful option if they are the go to more points efficient but not link coherent alternative. However, that means they need to be an alternative to other link coherent profiles with the same type of equipment.

 

I'm fine with it, but none of my fireteams in my NCA, Starmada or Corregidor have really been affected by any of the changes so far. I've never done the extreme things like BS14/15 troops in a 5 man link to boost them to 17/18 though. Pretty much just straight mook teams.

 

Or they field a Zhanshi Haris to enable that Haidao, where coherency is not that big of a deal.

If you absolutely need one, the cheapest is 55 points, so you can still bring your full pain train with Shang Ji + Zuyong + Character and a Zhencha.

 

Neither profile properly does its job in a Haris. The KHD is supposed to be hanging around the core to protect it or help it problem solve, the ARO MSR wants to be in a core for maximum effect (also, to protect the more valuable core link), and if you wanted it to problem solve an Avatar as an attack piece statistically you're better off firing with a core linked Shang Ji instead a Haris Haidao MSR.

The Haidao was designed for a role that doesn't really fit the game anymore. I think the problem would go away if you sprinkle some more expensive MSV2 big guns and KHD options amongst the coherent unit choices. Then there is at least value in making a decision between expensive but coherent, or budget but mixed and the Haidao can fill out one side of that choice.

I think the Tanko are in a very similar place, they were designed purely to support a unit as a hyper efficient mixed link but their differentiation in price is too damn close to Domaru that now shaving those few points just ain't worth it.

 

The changes are ok, my main gripe is with some lore friendly link teams like vet kazak + line kazaks but lore has less impotance nowadays.
The ratnik and black jack haris feels a bit odd, a band aid to try to make them work.
Also the frontovik sniper is the only visor lvl1 of TAK, an it no longer gains bonuses with line kazaks, since fire no longer burns mimetism TAK could struggle with visual mods a lot in the future.

The link changes are ok but the game desperately needs a deep redesign and rebalance of the already existing factions. A lot of them were clearly designed for N3 and they just don't work in N4, I'm not talking about win rates but inner balance design and troops with no role unable to fit in the game anymore or just replaced by better versions like the bear and the dog warriors. Some armies just don't feel ok when making lists for multiple reasons.

I would also like to see factions regain some charm and character, regular factions play with 15 orders and elite factions get 15+.
10 man lists are not viable anymore since you can remove 2 orders to 1 grup lists, and it's necessary since elite can get 14+ orders with a 1 grup list but all this has been lethal for list variety.
It's time to make 1 group lists viable again, elite factions should struggle to reach 13 units on the table, factions need that room to grow and feel different again, aleph needs to work with 10 to 12 units, while usarf or qappu could reach 15.
The band aids to make elite factions viable in N3 like the antennas and cheap regular troops must be removed.
The overall lethality must be reduced to reset the power creep and make second line aro pieces viable again.

I would like to see risky redesigns, like MRRF going for advanced deployment + non lethal weapons, or O12 with concilium friendly weapons compensated with mad profiles and skills, simbiotic rules for thoaa that work better with the core risk vs reward principles of the game, usarf going again for combined arms with multiple resilient barebones optimized profiles, a theme for each army.

Lastly promotional profiles like libertos and diggers are toxic for the design of the game, maybe they make money but they are harming the game deeply in return.

 

I haven't seen any SAA players say this, and I don't know why we would. The Regular Sapper defensive team was effectively buffed by being kept as a Coherent fireteam while other expensive-sniper-plus-line-troops teams weren't.

Dragao and Tikbalang will be even more effective due to the nerf of some of the toughest AROs.

The reworks were more nerf than gain for sectorials, and SAA escaped the worst of it.

 

The TriCore does exactly the same thing to any Haris, not just Brawlers; it grants a 5-person size bonus, but does not grant a composition bonus. The only advantage the Brawler Haris with a Tricore Taagma would get over a Triad Haris with a TriCore Taagma is +3 to Discover.

 

Feels like IA has had a bunch of problems introduced that they didn't used to have, but I'll have to see where that goes. Fortunately, WBA and ISS got so many new opportunities that I don't see myself playing IA before they alter fireteams after summer.
In theory you can correct two units like so: Invincible tag for Haidao, Zhanshi tag for Qiang
(Invincibles are more expensive than Haidao so that should be fine and Qiang really need a niche that isn't in direct competition with Shang-Jisus)

 

Yeah that's my point, if you want maximum bang for buck when you pay for a tri-core you have to use it on Humans.... which is fuckin' weird when it's made to be used on Tohaa and never used to affect the brawlers at all.

 

That would work although I kinda want to resolve it in a way that reflects the fluff too. Real Invincibles and Haidao (State Navy) have somewhat of a rivalry so them not providing full cohesion bonuses to each other actually reflects the fluff somewhat.

I don't know if that fixes Gao entirely given he wants to link with a tinbot to really make the ECM worth it. Wouldn't make him any worse though tbh.

 

Unless they introduce another Navy unit to IA that can allow Haidao and this new Navy unit to form a fireteam with cohesion with Haidao. Another option is one of mitigation by putting MSV1 on Zuyong ML.

Qiang would then be one of few HI-level units with an SWC weapon that's still capable of linking with a dirt cheap unit. It's a fairly simple solution that simply creates a niche for both Jisus and Qiang. If you want a firewall without eliminating your cohesion you can run an EVO Rem (and seriously, supportware really should be strategic CT use as option)

 

You're not wrong but I don't feel great about bringing the damn Zhanshi link back to IA when we finally did something to shuffle it out of the limelight.

Not a bad idea for White Banner though given both those units are still in that sectorial.....

 

I like the new fireteam rules because they open up a whole bunch of new opportunities and I hope for some fluff extra-boni like the jungle-terrain for some Morat teams.

On the downside things gets more complicated. With the old rules I still saw some people running wrong or illegal teams or miss options.

Overall I am good with the new rules. At the moment it looks like the Morats - as the newest (upgraded) army will benefit a lot from the new rules and are able to get full composition bonus on a mixed team with HI / MSV. Nice so far, as a straihgt forward army they can use that, but I hope CB will be careful with new power combos.

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Even Aida was snipped of one burst in her FTO Version - uuuhhhh SMG with B5
But to be honest, maybe they still don´t want a HRMC with B6. A good solution is to implement a sentence in the rules, that will cap all B on 5. Finish.

Yeah still feel a bit sad, that Haidao has no "invincible" tag. But at least IA reach BS 14 for the MSV Sniper. At the moment only MAF gets MSV sniper with BS 15 and HI HMG with BS 16 driven by a some 14 pts Vanguards in the same fireteam. Grenzes are able to go for BS 16 MMS with Cheerkillers now. But most of the other armys has the same problem with their top pieces not getting their old full power BS back.

I like that idea. Qiangs ECM is nice, but I still prefer Shang Ji over him. No NCO in WB. AP HMG is better than Dam +1 HMG. And ... the Defiance mini is not so tempting.

 

I am currently on the fence. I feel they made things more complex, and so I am taking longer to get my head around it that I did before. I like the broad concepts it introduces, but some of the specifics feel weird to me. For example, I was looking at a Securitate Core last night. If I add just an Interventor (part of the Securitate Fireteam option, but not a pure option), the four Securitate lose too much and I feel it is not worth it. On the other hand, if I also add the Grenzer Sniper (a Wildcard) I feel he is still good-enough in that link to justify the loss of bonuses (vs Securitate Sniper or Feuerbach) and the Securitate get demoted to linkfillers again.

I have looked a little at Corregidor, but so far the options are making my head hurt.

 

One thing I noticed is that new rules make me less focused on building a full Core team. This, combined with the fact that we have on the whole a greater number of fireteams and the ways to mix units, might result in sectorials gaining in flexibility what they've lost in pure power. If this will be the case then I consider this to be worthy trading in +2 BS for, especially since that loss only affects some of the unit combinations.

Moving +3 Discover bonus from 5-trooper strong teams to 3-trooper strong coherent ones also means this bonus is more readily available.

Another thing, already mentioned by some, is the ability to form Haris around basic troopers, who until now could only form Core fireteams. This is big, and indirectly makes fielding elite Core links easier, as they can be backed by an affordable support Haris - or two for some of the sectorials.

Another thing this will indirectly affect is the need for high burst, long range weapon to engage powerful Core fireteam AROs. Maybe people will start to appreciate Spitfires and Red Furies more.

I think it's to early to make definite claims about how the changes will affect balance between different sectorials, but I do find some of the decisions for specific sectorials questionable. Hovever, this concern is secondary to my concern about the way sectorials are being upgraded now, with some getting overly pampered (CJC, Kosmoflot), while other rot in design hell (FRRM, CHA).

 

Looks to me like JSA can make a Haris of 2 Aragoto and Kuroshi.

 

Overall I like the change.

I like the shift towards flexible composition and smaller teams. Spread the BS between 4 and 5 man so 5 man is not essential? Great! Make everyone essentially tohaa with mixed low power links? Yes fucking please. Give a home to lots of really mediocre profiles who can now lend their tools to a squad? Hell yes.

I also wholeheartedly approve of toning down the strongest MSV ARO pieces - Kamau and friends were not a positive part of the game in my opinion, and losing a couple of points of BS has made them way easier to take on with a decent gun.

I don't necessarily like how the various teams are set up, with only a very few getting a decent coherent core with multiple profile access. Some of the older armies fireteam lists made me legitimately laugh out loud at how shit they were.

I also don't like that mid-tier defensive AROs got worse, which many armies rely on to not just get deleted from the board. However, in fairness, the best and most uninteractive attack pieces laugh at random linked HI from behind PH17 smoke or invincible marker state or behind a pitcher that was unstoppably delivered to its target or from right over your shoulder as bob pushes the dagger in.

This is a good change and will ultimately improve the game. In the short term I think it will exacerbate the issue of really strong, uninteractive aggressive pieces and alpha strike gameplay. If that is toned down, an outcome where the strongest ARO pieces are less ridiculous and the strongest optimal attack pieces are likewise reduced will be a way better game in my opinion.