ISS Fireteam Changes

Lots of experementing with, actually.
What caught my attention was:
- Wu Ming Core: 4 Wu Ming + Zhanying hacker: grenades, e/m grenades, tinbot, WIP 13 hacker, full bonuses, additional space for SWC weapons. Can add a Zhanying to low price

- ABH + Sforza + Miranda: BS13 B4 Viral Rifle or BS13 B4 ADHL or BS12 B3 E/mitter (with ODD) or BS12 B4 Combi (with ODD). In top of having a specialist, beeing unhackable, non incompetent in CC and WIP 16 Discover.

 

Sforza in general is exciting. We sometimes get a few bears around our neck of the woods, so being able to masquerade as a juicy target then drop a couple of viral shots in at long range seems like it will be a lot of fun.

 

I'm not sure if it's been pointed out yet, but Sensor Zhanying in a pure link get +9 to discover camo. Not much will sneak past those guys.

 

1. kuangshi core fireteam feels pretty close to unplayable.
   - 5/list spots
   -1/1 core teams posible
   -no consistent wildcard but the controller
   -autobreaks bypassing nº2 with an easy non F2F roll
   - CG Smoke on 11-12s you try to put any wildcard inside. speculative on 5-6s
   
   
2. The alternative with CG fireteam feels a little better, since adil and Xi count as CG they can make a decent basic fireteam. The problem is that it lacks any kind o punch without dakinis, devas or wildcards
   they could have made baos or pheasants GC compatible, but they chose not to. So the problem is the same as avobe. I your try to make a capable fireteam, your smoke provider gets equally bad.
   On any other aspect the fireteam feels more complete with access to dakini paramedic and deva hacker/killer hacker better spearheads
   PD. As side note mr taowu's holomasked presence becomes pretty obvious the moment you make any roll with a pure CG fireteam, so that's kinda dissapointing his presence would have been better in any law and order fireteams.
   
   
3. wuming fireteam is still the same.
   
   
4. Law and order.
   - dirt cheap bounty hunters will displace almost any agent presence on your lists and will "fix"/reduce the need of a kuangshi farm
   - as result, agents become displaced out off the fireteam.
   -Avaliability 2 of haris, helps out a lot
   - In any other aspect this fireteam is one of the most polivalent and complete. Although, no paramedic, no engineer options are available.
   
   
5. Su-jian+Motorized BH. Or 2x Motorized Bountyhunter
   kind of a catapult to each other. Or the su-Jian Spitfire makes the shooting to catapult one BS/SMG motorbike or the Red fury Bounty hunter propels a Shotgun su-jian/bike

In short words.

• More shooting, (paradoxically, less effective BS)
  
• More outsourcing (aleph and mercs)
  
• More Light troops
  
• More flavours inside fireteams
• More unreliable smoke in a sectorial with 7 troops with Multiespectral visors
• Less plausible CC vectors of approach with more complicated smoke access
• more dificulty to deal with armored troops since CC becomes even harder and AP is still not so accesible
• Arguably Less agents
  
• Arguably Less resistance/endurance outside wuming. feels glassier than before
• probably loose kuangshi outside fireteams

I have mixed thoughts about the current sectorial. Hope I'm wrong, but that smoke and the "kriptonite core" (no haris option) with kuangshis is a hard blow to the way ISS was played and the degree of control the ISS player has over it's light, glassy tools

Invincible and White banner feel better packed and polished

just one direct template in the face can any skirmisher can sneak to your rearguard.

not a fan.

the only two zhanyings I like are the madtraps one and the hacker. Although, the missile launcher may be an alternative to an heterogenic core due to sixth sense, it has no hope for survival since it doesn't have shock inmunity, or access to doctors/paramedics. It's Just as sacrificial lamb as a CG sniper in a core with +1BS

 

Fireteam bonuses are checked when you form the team, when any member leaves the team, and when you activate any member of the team - not when you make a roll. If you want to hide Taowu, you construct the team with a Dakini or some of the non-CG wildcards (or have him pretend to be one of them) as those fireteams are believable as most sectorials will have to make this compromise.

Wu Ming primarily got better Haris as they gain +3 Discover as an added bonus.

Primarily most sectorials have to make these considerations. I think ISS is in a good place right now because of the extra Haris that only like 5 other sectorials get. I've been building lists, or maybe rather repacking and deleting my old ones, all day and both ISS and WB feels like an enjoyable puzzle. I think in addition ISS will scale really well to 400 if that's your jam.

 

I took this to a ten person tournament on Sunday and had a lot of fun with it. Won 2 games and lost 1.

Hsien Moonfall
──────────────────────────────────────────────────
GROUP 1 7
HSIEN (Lieutenant) Heavy Machine Gun, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 55)
CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 11)
CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 11)
MAJOR LUNAH VIRAL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29)
SFORZA FTO Viral Rifle, Adhesive Launcher(+1B), Nanopulser / Heavy Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 26)
BOUNTY HUNTER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 15)
BOUNTY HUNTER Sniper Rifle / Breaker Pistol(+1B), PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 19)
GROUP 2 7 1 5
CELESTIAL GUARD Monitor Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 13)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
NINJA (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow ( ) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 29)
SÙ-JIÀN Heavy Shotgun(+1B), Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 50)
MOTORIZED BOUNTY HUNTER Red Fury / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 15)
4.5 SWC | 300 Points
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In two of the games, I enjoyed the added firepower the HMG gave me. In the game I lost an excellent Combined Army player was using pitchers and Oblivion to isolate the Hsien, I'd consider swapping the multirifle & tinbot Hsien into it for extra insurance to play on the top tables. It must be possible to take a cheaper LT link, but the bargain price on the CSU buddies make the Hsien's firepower seem more affordable than ever.

The MBH & Su Jian combo is outstanding, especially on tables with lots of terrain. I prefer the heavy shotgun loadout but you can squeeze a lower points pair and encourage yourself not to overextend the Su Jian by putting a spitfire on the Su Jian and taking a boarding shotgun or smg on the MBH. This just about lets you swap a pheasant with madtraps into the ABH haris to add Chain of Command to the list... ideally I'd like to get Adil in there for Sensor & Chain of Command but can't quite get there.

There are various options with Miranda vs Sforza. Personally, I prefer Sforza, because the model from the defiance Kickstarter is gorgeous and because extra surprise viral against bears is good in the current meta. Both offer great surprise anti-tag options, which I didn't make enough use of and is something ISS has always been weak with. It's tempting to take Miranda and Sforza, but you probably don't need both - I'd like to see some dice math on Miranda's e/mitter vs Sforza's glue gun vs some common super heavy targets. You'd have to consider B3 and B2, as losing the sniper in the haris is pretty common. I found myself facing tags in all three games, so the anti-tag role of this link is very useful for this list. The ABH sniper in a link performed surprisingly well for me - Booty (Reroll) gave me Mimetism (-6) in one game making it a great little roadblock and an MSR in another, which let me kill a Maghariba Guard from long range. There be mileage in a double ABH sniper link as a pure defensive link, with something cheaper like a CSU bulking it out.

Garuda vs Ninja is something you can mix and match for the mission. There's only space with two harises, a duo and a core to take one upfield specialist. I'd love to find points for a Sophotect somewhere, but that's a long way out of reach without cutting the Hsien for something much cheaper and/or making space by shrinking the Kuang Shi link.

During deployment, it seems like it might be worth splitting the KS link up just to get corner guards across the table and let you deploy the other links with some close quarter bodyguards. I didn't actually use the BSG in the kuang shi link once, maybe because I'm rusty with ISS, but really because I wanted to use the orders to fuel the Su Jian duo.

 

Here's a tweaked version of the list. I reckon it'll work fairly well.

Principle changes:

• Tinbot on the LT
• CoC & Sensor on Adil, adding a specialist to the BH link.
• Spitfire over HSG garuda, which lets you take a cheaper MBH
• No BSG on the Kuang Shi
• Garuda FO instead of Ninja, saving you the points for Adil.

Strengths

• Decent ARO game, with two snipers. One viral for anti-bear insurance.
• Very fast multi-terrain & climbing plus attack
• Sforza (you can hide him as a zhanying or miranda).
• Smoke shooting from Lunah and the Hsien
• One AD troop that you kinda want to use as a specialist.
  
• Two decently fuelled order groups that can both get work done.
• Hey, you might win the lottery on a Booty or Metachemistry roll.

Weak points:

• No hackers (but what do you care, you've got no repeaters anyway)
• Pretty limited variety of specialists, if anything happens to the garuda you're on a walk. Maybe don't take this for Highly Classified, eh?
• No doctor / engineer. If it's down or dinged it stays that way.

Tweaked Moonfall Hsien
──────────────────────────────────────────────────
GROUP 1 7
HSIEN (Lieutenant) MULTI Marksman Rifle, Nanopulser ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (+1 | 53)
CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 11)
CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 11)
ADIL (Chain of Command) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser(+1B) / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 35)
BOUNTY HUNTER Sniper Rifle / Breaker Pistol(+1B), PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 19)
SFORZA FTO Viral Rifle, Adhesive Launcher(+1B), Nanopulser / Heavy Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 26)
MAJOR LUNAH VIRAL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29)
GROUP 2 7 1 5
CELESTIAL GUARD Monitor Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 13)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 54)
GARUDA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 20)
MOTORIZED BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Chain-colt(+1B) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 8)
4 SWC | 299 Points
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I've been poking at alternative haris links. This one is a little less exciting because it's dropped the Hsien for a CG Lt, but does manage to work in a Sophotect, Dakini HMG and Pangguling.

BAD:

• Weaker smoke shooting. Lunah and 3 man KS link, so harder to drop the smoke in the first place.
• LT is much squishier.

GOOD:

• You gain buffed dakini shooting.
• Much better support the Su Jian. Fairy dust, panzerfaust reloads, repairs. (You can tinker to fit either the HSG or Spitfire roles)
• You now have an engineer / doctor.

Add in a Sophotect...
──────────────────────────────────────────────────
GROUP 1 7
MAJOR LUNAH VIRAL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29)
CELESTIAL GUARD (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
DAKINI Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 21)
DAKINI (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
BOUNTY HUNTER Sniper Rifle / Breaker Pistol(+1B), PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 19)
ADIL (Chain of Command) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser(+1B) / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 35)
CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 11)
GROUP 2 7 1 3
PANGGULING (Hacker, EVO Hacking Device) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 15)
CELESTIAL GUARD Monitor Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 13)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 31)
YUDBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 54)
MOTORIZED BOUNTY HUNTER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 10)
GARUDA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 20)
5.5 SWC | 299 Points
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Interesting lists. Your reports are appreciated. I am trying to work out how to get my favourite models into a list. Rule of cool is my choice, but I like to at least be competitive. As a result it’s difficult writing a list with the new rules in mind

 

Heh, it's hard to take something apart or change it without mucking it up a little. You've improved some things like adding hacking, but we're reaching the point where you're trading away something valuable to me to improve something else.

• You've taken NWI off the Chain of Command model and moved it to the LT.
• You've removed sensor from the list... so netted +3 discover on one haris and removed +6 vs camo and a ZoC discover in another place.
• Two snipers aren't necessarily "duplicating a role" in my book, they're actually providing redundancy, ability to cover two areas of the table and ability to have one that sees through smoke and one that sees through white noise. Also Lunah is a rare source of viral, which terrifies bears. Bears eat people.

I love the e-mitter, though I think I'd really prefer to get either Sforza's ADHL +1 B w/ x-visor or Miranda's e/mitter +1 B w/ mimetism. I think we're at the point where it's pretty highly optimized though, and these kinds of trade-offs can be built based on the mission & meta close at hand.

 

Some thoughts on other points:

• Smoke generation w/ CG + Kuangh Shi: don't forget it's burst 2, even in a 3 man link. At 3 man, that's a chance of failure of (0.45 * 0.45), or 20.25%. It's exactly as reliable as a Shaolin throwing smoke at his own feet. If it doesn't work first time, spend a second order, smoke is worth it! In a five man pure KS link with the CG at BS 14, chance of failure inside 24" is just 9%. The link is still fine for throwing smoke around.
• Sforza loves dressing in drag: Amusingly, the only way to form a pure composition link with Sforza and to hide him is to dress him as Miranda Ashcroft. Hiding as an ABH will blow his cover when he skips a booty roll, and hiding as anything else will force you to lie about the link composition. Perhaps this is why he got thrown out of the clergy.
• How much ARO is enough in N4? I like at least two good ARO pieces with real guns. If you're putting up just one ARO then you're probably going to get Alpha struck by a Polaris bear or something, or have it shot away by White Noise. At least with 2+ ARO targets in turn one you force your opponent to waste orders deleting things on your terms, and you can structure your list so it still works when they're gone. The multiple haris lists I'm looking at here don't really have slots left for flash pulse bots or warcors, so I'm leaning into a couple of snipers.
• An agent boosted by two CSU is pretty useful. I'm not sure this is the death of the agent, but more likely that we'll see them accompanied by two corporate security bodyguards or bounty hunters when they do show up. Heavy Infantry still gets a variety of jobs done, and the Su Jian can't smoke shoot, use sensor, hack or shoot much over 24". Hsien, Crane and even Zhanying can do these. Even pheasants seem to be quite useful, with the Chain of Command and Madtraps profile looking especially good to me now.

 

This little group keeps showing up in my lists.

BÀO TROOP MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29)
BOUNTY HUNTER Sniper Rifle / Breaker Pistol(+1B), PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 19)
BOUNTY HUNTER Sniper Rifle / Breaker Pistol(+1B), PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 19)
2.5 SWC | 67 Points
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In ISS main problem is ,it is going to a way completely different than what we loved.
we love to use many kuangshis as possible, love to smoke everywhere , kill anything with Hsien or Ruishi etc. We always just wanted to use profiles like suntze, baotroops and cranes. however looks like there is no solution for this issue at all.

With new fireteam changes, army is a bit better shape i believe but completely out of way of what i like at least personally.

crane is out of the lists i guess and not fruitful any more and CB wants us to use devas-dakinis, wuming links more.

I cant see law and using criminals theme at all.

 

I dunno, I think most of those things have been strengthened. A lot of what was ISS was formed out of necessity, but now I think the increase in haris not only brings the sectorial back as having unusually high number of fireteams (they used to be the only sectorial other than QK with Haris) means a lot more units are viable. At least until some form of meta stabilization.

Sure, Cranes are out - kind of - but Bao are in, Pheasants (well... about two of them at least) are in, Kuang Shi are still very relevant even if you mightn't want to max them, smoke everywhere capacity got doubled, etc. It's true that Dakini are extremely important to ISS now, but having help from Friend Computer is kind of neat (send Dasyu with the next shipment, please)
But law enforcement using criminals is embodied by Zhanying and Wu Ming links and those Haris really seem like they could do some heavy lifting now, even for someone like me who have doubts about them as a core.

 

I don't think it's completely different. Since all got the changes, you can pretty much use what you had as is. There's nothing that was taken away. Only added as far as I can tell. As far as composition. Of course the +3 for 5-man was taken a way. It's still sort of possible. Bao are going to be used again by me for sure. I'll still use a Crane but he will be in a haris instead. Hell, more likely to be with a Bao now.

Unfortunately we still don't have the tools to accomplish some missions. Like with Anti-material or more Engineers and Doctors.

 

Just need D-Charges on something more than just the Zhanying hacker such as Bao, AP+DA CCW on Cranes, anti-materiel to be added to monofilament (with the reminder that scenery can't go directly to dead), or for the anti-tamper system in missions to stop denying with Martial Arts.

Any one of those would do it, I think.

 

A haris of Crane is a lot better now since they will get the +3 to discover. The ones with Sensor can discover on +9.


──────────────────────────────────────────────────
GROUP 1 9
CRANE AGENT (Triangulated Fire, Sensor, X Visor) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser(+1B) ( ) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 46)
CRANE AGENT (X Visor) Spitfire, Nanopulser(+1B) ( ) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 49)
CRANE AGENT (Hacker, Hacking Device, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser(+1B) ( ) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0.5 | 46)
CELESTIAL GUARD (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
CELESTIAL GUARD Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 19)
CELESTIAL GUARD (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 18)
CELESTIAL GUARD Monitor Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 13)
XI ZHUANG Combi Rifle, Light Flamethrower(+1B), Flash Pulse, Madtraps / Pistol, CC Weapon, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 21)
KǍNRÈN (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
GROUP 2 3 2 2
MOTORIZED BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Chain-colt(+1B) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 8)
MOTORIZED BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Chain-colt(+1B) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 8)
CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 11)
CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 11)
BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 12)
4 SWC | 299 Points
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