So many people have complained about how prevalent NBW is and CB seems to not care about over doing it at all. There is at least a handful of units that should not be bullied this way as they are said to be the best of the best but we understand these units were meant to be hard counters to units that are good at shooting, hacking and DTW resistance and CC like Joan or Achilles. However I dont think CB was considering others like Shona or Musashi who can be hard countered by being shot at and dont have easy access to smoke, careless that they would be hard counterd by BS and NBW. We also have Immunity for so many other things and the format is already laid out so nothing has to be added to any books or rules, it can just be added to profiles that should have it.
And then Immunity: (Immunity: (NBW)), and then Immunity: (Immunity: (Immunity: (NBW))), and then Immunity: (Immunity: (Immunity:(Immunity: (NBW)))), and then...
That's a facetious approach considering there have been countless complaints from so many people that NBW is a problem in some shape or form. Especially if we have mimetism -3, msv1, smoke and mimetism -6, msv 2 and 3, white noise and eclipse. This game is better served to have gradients instead of hard cut offs like what NBW is.
The biggest thing is that NBW is just freaking cheap. They could make NBW -1/-2/-3 for example, each of those would reduce MA by the number and each would cost more and more. In that case best NBW against medicare cc specialist with ma3 would negate it completely but ma5 monster would stil get +3/-3 and 1 damage
Just don't let units have NBW and Martial Arts at the same time - unless they're one of the very few, very unique, units that are meant to assassinate assassins (That is to say "unless they are Taowu"*.) * P.s. I realize he doesn't have this combo, but I can't think of anyone else who's primary and secondary design idea is to bait and kill high-MA assassin style units.
I'd prefer NBW effectiveness to be reduced, or just to reduce the profiles with the skill. But if that's not achievable, the current rules system can easily implement this suggestion.
But how to convince CB to drop NBW from half its users. I'd be okay with Ajax having it as long as he didnt have MA but CB would have to scalpel it out of so many units and then they would see a drop in sales for some of them. Remember how people say CB makes miniatures, not a game, and we are all complaining about power creep in some form most of the time. At least Immunity to something serves to debuff specific units rather than buff a handful against everyone else. I'm actually surprised 10 people said no but only 2 argued anything, yourself included. A small group sure, but no discussion at all...
Very much not a fan. This is an extension of the idea of "rules that just cancel other rules" and I dislike that type of effect already. If we get into rules that cancel rules that cancel rules... that way lies madness! I'd say the best solution for NBW is to just raise the CC of everyone who has it, then delete the skill from the game. Its not interesting at all, and its now starting to really cramp on the style of many melee units.
It's really only a problem on models such as Diggers and Beast Hunters which are super cheap and can outfight Martial Arts models but shouldn't be able to.
While I agree, it's far more likely to convince CB to put Immunity to NBW on a handful of units than to convince them to drop it from so many of the units theyve already applied it to... but if you want to create that poll, I'd vote. Also, as an example of how it's not problematic to cancel other skills, MSV is one of those skills to cancel other skills. Hard and soft counters are engrained into the game.
I agree but what did you have in mind and how to convince CB? Cause this Immunity is easy to give to a handful of units.
Nothing. This is the kind of rule that isn't going to see a change until an edition rolls around. It's not wide spread enough or problematic enough to warrant immediate attention, and going down the route of rules cancelling rules cancelling rules is just unnecessary convolutions to fix a problem that isn't that important.
I know that skills that cancel skills exist, but just because they exist does not mean that I like them or think they are good.
What are you considering when making your statements because it seems you're not accurately assessing how problematic NBW has become or how unproblematic Immunity on a handful of units would be. This would not need a new edition at all.
Well, what would you say about the MSV, the smokes and the mimetisms? In my experience, a scale for all these skills is better than a hard stop, it's easier for to mitigate things that are OP.
NBW is not a good rule but it's not a problematic game breaker because tactically speaking, players don't generally commit CC troops to fight other CC troops. Committing order intensive assets to fight each other in a 1 dice vs 1 dice crapshoot is an error or an act of desperation. A CC competent martial artist doesn't want to spend orders finding another CC unit to have a kung fu throw down against. They want to seek out a nice expensive TAG, HI, or some crap stat LT at the back of a table and bully them in an easy but high value return for spending all the orders required to get across the table to hurt someone. Alternatively they are a 5-10pt Warband that you don't really care if they live or die and if they run into something that can give them a fight on equal footing in CC they yell "SHOULD HAVE DODGED" and put a template on the opponent.
Are you purposefully ignoring all the NBW+MA/+1B etc that bully other MAists including the more expensive ones who are built around CC. It's not a game Breaker against every other army, but against one army particularly, and if it is on the right profile in the right armies then it helps an already good army leverage further. I mean, the whole point of these conversations is to make all armies equally viable regardless of match up, remember.
The point is you shouldn't be sending any CC competent fighters to attack that kind of target in the first place. Even we straight up deleted NBW from the game, strategically speaking sending your CC fighter to go and fight them is a mistake. CC units, when used correctly, tend to punch down against far weaker high value targets. They don't want to spend 5 orders moving into an exposed location to have a fist fight with something like a Tyrok Hunter. Even if you made a unit immune to NBW, spending all the required orders to setup CC against a Tyrok Hunter is a stupid move and a total waste of orders. NBW has no bearing on this, hence, I don't find it a priority problem that needs solving in the short term (unlike addressing DTW over saturation for example or cleaning up that last disaster of an FAQ) and it's probably something that will sit on the backburner until CB are ready to start planning an edition change and the general rules housekeeping that comes with that.
