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Yu Jing vs. Alpha Strikers

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Space Ranger, Feb 7, 2022.

  1. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    I am adding different content every time I post while again you complain the same way every time despite not having any record or receipts to back up anything you say(I am also not saying you aren’t right about a good amount of things, but you claim much more than you have berth too). You offer the same “hot takes” every single thread, masquerading as some strategic genius despite never ever leaving your own meta?

    Where did I say WBA was superior to Vanilla lol.
     
  2. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    One thing to note is Shang-Jisus is also a shock hmg, which while the amount of viable targets is ever-dwindling, is still valuable even against LI.

    WBA 100% deserves AVA 5 Zhanshi for sure… maybe in the fireteam update… ha ha ha.
     
  3. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't aware we had to make up things in order to be allowed to post. WB was crap the moment N4 released and is still suffering the exact same issues it had in 2020 because CB are ridiculously slow to fix anything.

    Has the argument changed? No. Is it still worth posting? Yes. People who are new, or play more casually (like at least one person posting in this thread), come across this information sitting on the front page of the forum. They're not going to go digging through the entire YJ forum to find shit.

    Let's be real though this has nothing to do with any of this and you're actually just irritated I implied your list was bad. Take it on board, or ignore it. Or just continue to whine about people telling you White Banner and your army has problems. You do you, I'm not your dad.

    I assumed that's what you were implying given how upset you are by someone pointing out the sectorial (and your lists) have major issues.
     
  4. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    Cool your jets boys. Lets not let how crappy WB is come between members of the community.

    Because at the end of the day, we can all agree that WB is pretty bad, and if the other guy can agree on that, how bad can he be?
     
  5. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    If you want to obsess over how you think WBA is so bad, so be it! But to vent it out every single thread is just tiring. I also see how your avoid the fact your toxic and abrasive behavior is what gets newer players to not ever come back here. I could care less if you think my list is bad, I will never be offended by your input. You refuse to let anyone else have fun or an idea of fun if it goes against how *you* think.

    What is so funny to me, the few times I post here YOU always reply to me and try to degrade/humiliate me in different ways. It is like the idea of me not being in your groupthink always make you come after me.

    WBA is definitely straight average tier, I wouldn’t call it bad at all.
     
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  6. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    There is no 'average'. There are the vanilla chads, and everything else can go to the trash where it belongs! I'll leave you guys to it, but really, this sort of thing... its not fantastic content.
     
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  7. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    I am about to probably start Vanilla YJ too soon! Vanilla armies are really just the meta.
     
  8. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I literally just posted that White Banner is an inferior version of Vanilla and specifically your list could be largely replicated into Vanilla and be better off for it by removing things that have little to no functional value in N4. Somehow you've managed to twist this around in your head into this is a personal attack on you. If you want to believe that then by all means carry on I'm not going to stop you.
     
  9. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Guys cool down, what is the reason to be so hostile?
     
  10. Surmelk

    Surmelk Well-Known Member

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    This is a big topic.

    My 2 cents and some more:
    - WB is a pretty good sectorial, but a lot of factions have problems with alphas strikes. So I don’t think it’s the faction.
    - The lower model count in N4 and less hard aro, makes alpha strikes even more deadly
    - There is different sort of alpha strikes which must be handled differently. Like impersonation markers in your face, models walking into your DZ ala rasyat or Rambo from the enemy DZ aka bears.
    - WB has several very good defence pieces like long ya and guiling minelayer, monks and the hundun.
    - Expect something to die.

    My recept:
    - Know the enemy and what sort of alpha can be expected. Deploy accordingly.
    - Generally deploy defence in layers with overlapping firelines. Make speedbumps.
    - Spread out your heavy hitters so not several of them are killed in the first turn.
    - Reserve an important piece to survive or a good defence piece. Facing an opponent from an impersonation faction, a good example would be long ya or guiling minelayer. Try to box in the impersonation marker or make a block.
    - You may have to do some list tweaking. In some tournaments I have a list with my heavy hitters in camo/off table and use it against factions with a likely crushing alpha. But very dependent on missions.
     
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  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Very good summary, Surmelk, truly.

    Regarding the meta debate on factions, I think most factions (vanilla or otherwise) have the tools to deal with alpha strikes to roughly the level of White Banner. There are some that are worse (f.ex. Nomads and their notorious difficulty with LT), there are some that are better (f.ex. Ariadna where you can place your important minis behind camo). Whether this is enough to put you on an equal footing with factions with access to strong early DZ rushers is another matter, but you're in the same boat as nearly everyone else, including most factions that's got access to these units.

    You may need to sacrifice one of your lists to better guard against a Rasyat, Equip Mirage, Fiday, Speculo, Jaan, etc, where you keep redundancies of mission critical minis and select cheaper mission critical minis to achieve redundancy. I also think that playing "vanilla with a fireteam" is a valid way to build a list - especially if your other list is taking more advantage of being a sectorial. Just getting a handful of orders with better than excellent shooting from a Jisus can be worth it by itself and then break the Jisus off from the Fireteam or taking the Jisus on a walk with the button pushing parts of the Fireteam.

    I'd also like to remind people in general of TR Rems, not as protection but more as a guarantor that a piece doesn't get to do the assassination run several times in a round. Even if all it does is sit behind a box all game keeping an eye on your rear and your LT double, those 24/1 can be worth it if it lets most of your units face in a more useful direction to deal with other DZ pushers - or to guarantee that Al-Djabel is removed after placing those templates (unless Allah curses your dice).
     
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  12. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    My experience as a vanilla player :
    - cheap camo token is a good solution to block stairs/door : being in silhouette contact with a camo token is forbidden so libertos, beasthunter... is a very efficient way to force your opponent to loose its impersonation to reach your costly trooper. => work also to prevent said Imp marker to go down from its roof
    - mine : yes Kitsune can dodge a mine. But it reveal her & make her loose order. Plus : if she declare dodge in ZoC of one of your cheap trooper you can dodge to chain rifle her later
    - kuang shi : cheap disposable chain rifle, explode when unconscious, can go dogged, throwable discover, good at covering table border, impetous order to reach the 0-20 rangeband to discover => what more do you need ? (warband have the same use)
    - cheap ARO : 7 pts drone, yaozao, warcor : cheap trooper to discover/alert and cover table border
    - TO (Hundun !): maybe you cannot prevent Kitsune/Fiday/... to kill your trooper but you can kill him/her. Exchanging a 40+ pts HI against a 30+ pts rambo is not a bad deal (even more when said rambo waster 5-8 orders to kill your HI)
    - spotlight + good repeater coverage : you may not be able to prevent 1/2 loss but spotlight is very helpful making sure the enemy rambo won't survive until turn 2

    - camo, camo, camo : your favorite opponent always play Imp/DZ combat jump/TO infiltrator alpha strike ? Answer with a full/nearly full camoed list (like this :Open in Infinity Army).
    Nothing fuck up an alpha striker turn more than having to discover everything
     
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  13. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    This is what I remember from his list. I might be off a little bit.

    KItsune hung off the edge of the building i had my Shang Ji on. Then used an order to dodge 4" into CC. My SJ had a Zhanshi next to him but he had ready died to a template weapon.


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    SHIKAMI Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, AP + DA CC Weapon. (0 | 48)
    DAIYŌKAI Red Fury, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP + DA CC Weapon. (1 | 49)
    KEMPEI (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 20)
    DOMARU (Lieutenant) Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (0 | 21)
    TANKŌ Flammenspeer, Contender / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 17)
    KEMPEI (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 20)
    DOMARU Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (0 | 21)
    SHINOBU Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0.5 | 44)
    MIYAMOTO MUSHASHI Chain Rifle, Flash Pulse / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 20)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4
    PANGGULING (Deactivator, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8)
    PANGGULING (Deactivator, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    TOKUSETSU KOHEI (Engineer, Deactivator) Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    YÁOZĂO PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    1.5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    BTW, maybe better for the rules thread but i'm lazy. Can a figure in the ZoC of a repeater, dodge or reset, when a fireteam with a hacker in it activates but is not the leader? The hacker is doing nothing move.
     
  14. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    Shinobu didn’t deploy hanging on the side of the building right? Because C+ units have to deploy on a horizontal surface.

    For your other question there was a FAQ ruling:
    Q: How do Hacking Area AROs work, and do they allow the Trooper to Dodge?

    A: Hacking Program AROs and Reset AROs are considered valid AROs for a Hacker if the Active Trooper is inside the Hacker’s Hacking Area. Dodge AROs are not considered valid for Hacking Area AROs.

    PS against some of the bigger alpha strike users, I’ve always found a pocket monk can help that babysits the FT, if anything just to ensure that the Alpha piece gets hit back if its a CC one.

    The thing with WBA is a lot of our defense/specialists are camo units, so the alpha units are always going to come in hot on the Shang-JI FT. Finding ways to layer defense or creating “kill zones” for those trying to approach it is your best bet.
     
    #34 ldgif, Feb 8, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
  15. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    No she ran up it out of LoS. to get there. I had failed a discover. Bad rolls were the normal. We were playing Power Pack and the weird deployment made it really hard to see anything.

    But can you declare ARO Reset if the hacker is not the one doing anything? He's a part of the active fireteam but not doing anything. I had already immobilized his Shikami and he used that to get out of it. This makes not want to have less to have a hacker in the fireteam. He had also done a Dodge against hacking once. That's how I immobilized him in the first place. But he used it to move.
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Shikami needs an ARO to declare Reset. Shikami can get that ARO from; getting LOF to one of your active units, having one of your active units inside his Zone of Control, or being the target of a Hacking Attack. That last one only allows Reset as ARO declaration.
    Since Shikami can't be a hacker, Shikami does not have a Hacking Area of their own to gain AROs from, so just because you activate a Hacker doesn't mean the Shikami gets an opportunity to declare anything.
     
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  17. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    The Key thing you have there is being the Target of hacking. So a hacker can just do a move-move. The Shikami would not be able to ARO?
     
  18. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Assuming you're not in the Shikami's ZoC, correct.
     
  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. There's three ways to get a Reset ARO, if your active trooper(s) give them one or more of those three, the Shikami could Reset
     
  20. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys. That helps. We still get some rules mixed up with old or just wrong lol.
     
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