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Yu Jing vs. Alpha Strikers

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Space Ranger, Feb 7, 2022.

  1. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I need some. I keep having problems against Alpha strike infiltrators/impersonators. I've played my Shang Ji about 5 times and twice it's been killed first turn by Kitsune, once by a Fiday. Mines don't seem to help since she dodges it into close combat. Sixth sense doesn't matter when you have such a disparity in CC ability.

    Admittedly my opponent is very good and knows how to counter everything but I feel like I'm making it too easy for him. Some of it is bad luck. On the weekend I was playing WB and had Tian Gou use the Jammer on her but of course I rolled a 15. But even then it's after my SJ has been turned into Sushi. I can't really mitigate bad rolls though. I even knew I was going to be facing it and still got clobbered. Though that day the dice gods hated me for some reason. Sadly it's a regular thing for me.

    One of the problems I'm finding is that I put effort into stopping the alpha strikers but then it hurts me for the rest of the game. I use resources to protect certain troops instead of using them to complete the mission.
     
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It is very difficult to describe, but the general idea is to know your own force and to know what they want to kill, then layer your AROs accordingly. Chaiyi can drastically reduce their ability to Dodge into melee with primary targets and a mine (or cheap-ish camo like Daoying BSG who can also elect to "not explode") placed at the feet of your important unit can simply put a dead stop on them ever getting into melee. Hell, a Krit/Guilang repeater at the feet of your Jisus won't kill Shinobu, but it won't also explode and get removed.
    We don't have many true sacrificial units the way Pan-O or Nomads can arrange, so it's more about diverting the damage on to less useful things or simply having a plan B.

    Look at it from the bright side, Shinobu is costly AF and only works 80% of the time. Can't really say the same about a Fiday, but everyone struggles against them so it's not just you (nor your faction)
     
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  3. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Just remember that Kitsune brings a Nanopulser to the party... And Fidays bring Light Shotguns. Grief Operators are the only Impersonator models without a DTW.

    So, ammassing your troops is not always a good way to deal with Impersonators...
     
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  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Don't get crippled by an over the top alpha strike. This is N4 300pts in a nutshell.

    If you're playing WB put some more monks and garbage in her way.

    Realistically though just stop playing WB and just play Vanilla, it's less of a headache and relies less on trash units like the Tian Gou. Camo spam and a Hac Tao generally removes most alpha issues.
     
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  5. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I'm getting to that point. Though the same problem can still happen with Vanilla. The SJ still would have been target priority #1. If my dice had actually worked the TG would have stopped her in her tracks. I think I stupidly put him on a building with a small area and her ability to climb made it impossible for me to counter. But that was also just that game. It was not the same in others.
     
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    That's what Vanilla brings to the table instead of WB, you're not relying on a single shang ji in a subpar link to carry your game. Put a Hac Tao in HD and invite your opponent to go look for anything that isn't under a camo marker or 5pts and carrying a chain rifle to alpha strike.
     
  7. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    I find WBA pretty okay with dealing with non-guided alphas, monks, mines (for when they pop out), and camo abound is pretty much the strategy.
     
  8. antox717

    antox717 Member

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    Hi, i'ma kinda a player of WB too, but not many games under my belt. So i'm asking if placing a tian gou masked as a shang ji double in the link is viable too to trick the alpha striker. It shoul work 50% of times :P and bring also a substitute to keep link power to five.
     
  9. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    The issue is Holomask doesn’t replicate Tinbots, so it will be pretty obvious.
     
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  10. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    That's what I did on the weekend. I had the TG as a regular SJ. I was actually hoping he'd go for him thinking it's the Lt. He was a little surprised when I revealed to be TG but it didn't help me since I rolled bad on the Jammer. Though the last time I tried that trick I got it off but he passed the BTS save. :sob:
     
  11. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    Most sectorials struggle with this, its a pretty meaningful design flaw in my opinion and the main reason I play vanilla.

    In vanilla everything my go-to countermeasure for a lot of these alpha strikes is a libertos. The beast hunter works well too, and in YJ there are a ton of ARO and mine options like the long ya as well as a camouflage LT to mitigate one of the worst outcomes of such an attack.

    Looking over WB I see the beasthunter and the Long Ya. These are both excellent roadblocks. Mines are a pretty solid counter to shinobi in particular and panzerfaust or flash ARO pieces watching large areas help prevent recamo and threaten discover. Secondarily, not building your army around a single lynchpin model is a good play because everything dies pretty much equally to Shinobu's monosword. Problem is, this affects sectorials more than it does vanilla due to their important pieces typically being in links. But it is what it is.

    Don't feel bad about getting dumpstered though. Due to the mechanics, this type of alpha strike success rate is built more heavily on the skill of the attacker than the defender, and is heavily reliant on gear checks and list composition. Two equal players will typically see alpha damage done as it is harder to defend this than to attack with it.

    Edit: Anyone tried a Hundun MSV1 SMMR. Its not something I typically use, but MSV1 is pretty damn impactful here as is the surprise factor.

    Edit #2: If you post up your list it might be useful to get better feedback. Some portion of this problem will be list composition.
     
    #11 WiT?, Feb 7, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2022
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  12. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I screwed up on mines and Madtraps before. Because of Kitsune's Dodge +2" and good PH, she dodged right into CC. So far not much of a road block. Since I was playing WB I didn't have Liberto.

    .5 SWC and 31pts for MSV1 and SMR Hundun? It's a lot for meh ability. If they add in Forward Deploy so he could be in range for it, I would consider it. Or better yet, make it a Multi-Marksman rifle to give him a little bit more flexibility.

    It was several different lists. The one I used on the weekend was the one I didn't really want to use. For some reason the list I had on my phone was an old one.

    I think I'm giving up on WB. I just can't do what I want with them. They are not the skirmish/warband force I had hoped for. It has some fairly good camo and stuff but so expensive you can't make a good force out of them. It might be good for one mission but that's about it. You can't do a lot of camo and have a good mix of shooting and specialists. It's one or the other. Also, if you are not using fireteams, you might as well play vanilla.
     
  13. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    I think the Sectorial works pretty well as a Camo+WB army with an addition of a FT, but that is my experience with them. I also think if you don't vibe with an army, you should rotate it out, as forcing yourself to play that army is just going to give bad vibes.

    This is a pretty standard WBA list I have been recently using with a lot of success. It can be modified further with taking out the Engie for a different unit if needed. It is far from perfect, but it seems to always be able to get the job done.
    Bring Da Ruckus
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]2
    SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) AP Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 49)
    ZHANSHI (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
    ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
    ZHANSHI (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    ZHANSHI Missile Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 16)
    DÀOFĚI Spitfire, D-Charges / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 55)
    GŬILÁNG (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Shock Mines ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 30)
    GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
    LÓNG YÁ (Minelayer) Panzerfaust(+1B), Flammenspeer(+1B), Submachine Gun, AP Mines / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 17)
    BEASTHUNTERS (Surprise Attack [-3], Camouflage, Forward Deployment [+8"]) Heavy Flamethrower, Panzerfaust, AP Mines / EXP CC Weapon(+1B), Pistol. (0 | 16)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3
    LÓNG YÁ (Minelayer) Panzerfaust(+1B), Flammenspeer(+1B), Submachine Gun, AP Mines / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 17)
    MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    YÁOZĂO PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    YÁOZĂO PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 6)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 6)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 6)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  14. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    That's literally just an objectively worse Vanilla list. The one thing that differentiates it is a core link.... that you can't aggressively leverage because it's got an LT hanging around its neck as an anchor.

    You're not even going to keep the +3 BS bonus on the Shang Ji. Line infantry AROs are functionally shit these days, they didn't keep pace with active turn power creep. The Zhanshi is statistically likely to implode to the first thing that decides it doesn't like it. Not to mention even when they were a thing they tended to be used in throwaway defensive links that didn't include attack pieces, or links that packed refills for when they died (and good luck refilling a link in WB AVA4 Zhanshi lol).
     
    #14 Triumph, Feb 8, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
  15. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    Why even post if you are just going to repeat the same few things you always post? I simply just posted a list I have had good experiences with in a tournament setting. If you don't like it, awesome! Don't have to pollute the comments just because it doesn't fill your cup of tea. I'm not going to post to defend every choice or decision I made with the list. I never said said it was the best - which I clearly stated, but go on with your little negativity crusade as per the usual.
     
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  16. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I dunno, why do people keep championing crap lists for crap sectorials and say things like this?

     
  17. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
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    Because I am allowed to talk about my relevant play experiences of the army being talked about in the subject of the thread?
    Sorry that I play crappy lists in crappy sectorials and champion them by saying “it did pretty well”.

    You act like such an authority of the game for someone that only plays in their own meta, it is honestly so tiring. It is okay for someone to have different view points than you and channel some sort of conducive environment.
     
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  18. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I see. It's the actually a "I'm allowed to talk about my play experiences of the army but you're not allowed to because you disagree with me and that hurts my feelings," response.

    Now we get to the truth of the matter.

    Also are we pretending that WB being Vanilla but worse is somehow a hot take out of my meta? Last I checked that was a pretty commonly held view.
     
    #18 Triumph, Feb 8, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
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  19. SpectralOwl

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    I'm honestly wondering if that Shang-Ji HMG is actually worth it, seems like overkill for anything short of a TAG- especially against Haqq and JSA lists, which tend to be heavy on MODs and light on armour. Maybe just swapping down to a Zhanshi HMG with a Tian Gou for filler and LT shell games and using the saved points to buy a Rui Shi as backup gunner could do the trick? Keeping specific pieces alive that aren't Markers against assassins is always stupidly difficult, so any of my lists that could face Shinobu or an Impersonator usually features a bit more redundancy than usual.

    Edit; also, looking at the WB roster, *wow* does it need better Zhanshi AVA.
     
  20. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Fixing the Zhanshi link would go a long way to helping the sectorial claim enough identity so it could actually be a viable alternative to Vanilla. If Ye Mao could turn up in Zhanshi links? Sectorial gets way more usuable.

    It's weird as fuck that the best LI link Yu Jing has is in bloody Invincible Army of all places.
     
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