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Make holding ARO more applicable

Discussion in 'Rules' started by wuji, Feb 1, 2022.

?

Do people GENERALLY agree with the original post??

  1. Yes

  2. No

  3. Unsure

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    The best thing to do is have requisites be met before Declaration and treat ZoC AROs like AROs against camo markers (you can hold ARO incase they enter your LoF or you can choose to Dodge or Reset).

    I'm using the word "generally" in the poll to eradicate as much as possible the middle ground of "unsure" because we all kind of want what's best for the game and not just what's best for us as an individual. For example, I personally believe Requirement be met before Declaration is hugely intuitive and far less problematic if at all. I will leave in unsure but I ask all to think hard on that response if they feel inclined to do so because we all do ultimately just want the game to get better faster.
     
    #1 wuji, Feb 1, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2022
  2. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    It is a good base for a productive discussion, I'am quite the opposite in my opinion, the "thing" with "hold ARO" should be remove from the game. Right now, taken the checking of requisites to the resolution phase, it is easy to allow the declaration of all AROs when the troupes have right to do it (enemy in Control Zone or LoT, etc) and later check if the troupe can or not do the thing: yes, you will do whatever you declared, not, you will do iddle. This bring to us the same way to work against any camo marker and troups, no more complicated interactions. In the end it will be the same as your proposal, but in a way not all the troups in ARO having the old Six Sense L1 :)

    CB has promised us a living core rulebook this year, maybe we will be lucky and we will see some iterations before the end of the year. we have plenty of things we can see there.
     
    nazroth likes this.
  3. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    If i understand correctly

    You declare ARO shoot, this prevents your opponent from coming around the corner because if they do they get shot. If they dont, you still shoot?

    Wish everyone else would have provided arguments, I'm always weary that people give negative votes cause of who the questioner is not the argument
     
  4. Blakhart

    Blakhart Well-Known Member

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    I voted No because letting the Reactive Troop hold would have to much advantage and control over the Active players actions/turn which goes against the nature of the Order system, where in spending the resource is supposed to enable that player to dictate the pace of the game during their turn.

    Holding ARO would skirt a lot of decision making for the Active Troop and force the game to less movement AND less dice Interactions. IMO...
     
  5. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    What I mean is.. I will try to explain myself with an example:

    Troup A is behind a wall, nobody can see it, but is in Control Zone of the enemy B.
    -Troup A declare CD against B with is combi, full burst.
    -Troup B declare CD against A with his zapper placing the template around that corner where the enemy (A) can show his head. (B can declare ARO because A was activated in Control Zone).
    -Troup A declare MOV and shows his head: LoF between A and B was granted.
    -Resolution...
    Both, A and B, can do what they have declared previously, because they fulfill the requisites.

    A is in camo state and can be see by B.
    -A declare MOV in LoF of B.
    -B declare "shoot".
    -A declare MOV.

    B do nothing.

    Same scenario but... A declare to shoot B instead MOV as second skill.
    B and A fulfill the requisites and both can do the shot.

    They are of course some scenarios which could be problematic or which require special attention (for example, Camo vs Camo).
     
  6. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    In your first example you still use the declare before requirements are met and I think it's such a clumsy system. I understand the intent CB was attempting but it just feels wrong. When it was first implemented that opinion was voiced but people got used to it because it was already done. To be truthfully honest idle feels so awkward in my opinion. I feel like its goalie just standing there instead of diving the wrong way. Action is rather anticipatory. Another example is a boxer who lands his punches is punching where you're going to be not where you currently are. It makes more sense to me that Trooper A and B are moving at the same time within the span of two orders around this corner we're talking about instead of trying to squeeze more into one order with idle. I feel as if it kind of gives a tiny bit more advantage than necessary to the active turn as well.

    For the camo example, well the current camo rules is what's necessary.

    1.Camo A moves in LoF
    2.B can choose discover, dodge, reset or hold ARO.
    (Depending on what A choose next, this scenario can play out like the goalie B, being tricked by the kicker A into diving in the wrong direction or choosing the wrong ARO.)
    3. B chooses dodge.
    4. A chooses shoot. (B chose correctly because he anticipated A was not a hacker and was uncertain if A would choose to shoot if B chose to hold ARO.
    (This seems more intuitive and realistic to me.)

    Just my opinions and I apologize it's a block of text.
     
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