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Discussion in 'Scenery' started by Pettynyt Pelaaja, Jan 30, 2022.

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    #1 Pettynyt Pelaaja, Jan 30, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 5, 2022
  2. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    With several excellent MDF manufacturers and STL files available, I suppose that most people just buy or print their terrain.
    But yeah, Infinity is a fraction of 40k in terms of community and engagement, so that's probably the main reason.
     
    chromedog likes this.
  3. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

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    Needs more terrain and fan base is smaller. I believe everyone more or less agrees on that.

    Consider if the channels (videos, groups, websites...) you mention are based around possible audience, or output / variation. Would creators prefer to target niche subjects (in a niche hobby), specially if trying to monetize? And with less grimdark style, so more work to get scenery to the level of the miniatures (highly detailed, and mostly clean).

    Also, search engines have been going downhill for years, making non mainstream sites suffering due that, so less people give them a go (and the cycle reinforces). Another turn of the screw towards going with the biggest (sites, instead of games, but similar thing).
     
  4. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
    Moderator

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    To be frank, I do not have the time or the passion to hand build terrain, if I have time, I would rather spend it on building models, potentially painting them and playing the game, instead of making terrain, this eliminates any search I would do for such channels, personally when I look for terrain I look for terrain that is already painted, if it is already assembled it would be even better.

    While I am not sure the majority of the community is at this level, I can hazard a guess most of them are at least in the middle bracket and look for ready to build terrain, either as MDF or 3D files to print.

    This could severely impact the number of content creators that would create such content, either because they do not do it themselves and because the community does not seek this content in general.
     
    kesharq likes this.
  5. chromedog

    chromedog Less than significant minion

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    I'm old school. I still make terrain by hand - but that's because I have neither access to a lasercutter or a 3d printer - but I have plenty of mdf and foamed pvc sheeting and the tools to work them - and the skills developed in an FX workshop as well. This works well for me, because there often long periods where there aren't any new release models for infinity that I want to get, so I make terrain instead.
    Others in my local community make their own terrain too. Some design and lasercut, several design and 3d print and with what's available on the terrain front, we haven't been hurting for terrain.
     
  6. jherazob

    jherazob Well-Known Member

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    From what i've seen, at least on Youtube is measurably bad to make content that is not popular no matter the subject. In our hobby that almost certainly means that covering anything not GW will lower your traffic and therefore revenue. So, this causes a heavy bias towards GW.

    On the other hand, in Infinity we went rather quickly from having nearly all terrain being homemade to officially licensed MDF stuff very quickly once CB started giving manufacturers their OK, so most tables you see these days have something from an official manufacturer. That of course still leaves room for creating content (building, painting and customizing said terrain), but in general most people seem to focus more on painting the minis once they have a decent board to play on. And since in general the system works nicer with your usual boxy, max 2 stories terrain, most people seem content with this.

    I for one would enjoy seeing content for people making nice citiscapes and things like this, and bet i wouldn't be the only one, but it would be a niche within a niche, so punished with not being very popular.
     
    Mob of Blondes and chromedog like this.
  7. nazroth

    nazroth 'well known Nomad agitator'

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    I've been creating gaming boards for wargames including Warhammer, 40k, Necromunda, Mordheim and Infinity (and more) for over two decades now. I believe that while most other games require rather simple open world/industrial scenery, Infinity really tags at our imagination. We tend to expect a coherent futuristic looks on par with beautiful Infinity miniatures and that is really difficult to achieve with fast, simple solutions.
    Take Necromunda as a counterpart. Even though it requires quite a lot of scenery pieces, a few empty metal cans or boxes, a bit of hard paper and you're set to go. You can add simple scenery as you go and build up whenever you feel like it. Most cases whatever you'll add will fit the ramshackle feel of the underhive. If you have funds for some interesting textures (stripping official scenery for parts) you can achieve great results - fast and easy. This works similar for most games really.

    Some examples:
    [​IMG]
    A Necromunda board made of four shoe boxes, covered with textures taken from GW scenery in a rather sloppy manner. Might seem random and that wouldn't hit far away from the mark. I made this in about three days.

    [​IMG]
    Mordheim board. Simple hard cardboard solutions mixed with wooden additions. These buildings are borderline easy to make. I made and upgraded this throughout the years, but if I wanted to start from scratch right now it would be like two weekends tops. Cost of material for entire thing is like 100€ (except for miniatures and leftover bitz used).

    [​IMG]
    Warhammer board, entire thing except the tower, (original GW scenery) made within 12 hours total. Some official parts used, the cost of parts and material within 150€.

    Now Infinity...
    [​IMG]
    This is my current table. You probably wouldn't believe it, but a lot of this stuff is scratch built. Oh, and all the low buildings are cardboard paper boxes. The table looks coherent thanks to some laser cut HDF elements and some purchased scenery mixed in.

    The thing is, the effort required to scratch build high end Infinity scenery is overwhelming compared to other less visually demanding games. You obviously can go cheap and fast but the effect won't be close to high end table. To better present this, here's how the Infinity board started. Almost entirely scratch built, one evening of work. Paper boxes, some empty plastic containers, bottle caps and Tic-Tac packs...
    [​IMG]
    The table was very playable from the get go, but it took years and uncountable hours of work to make it look more believable and in line with the miniatures. At some point textures were required and with no official Infinity the Game plastic sets of scenery laser cut HAD was the cheapest and most rewarding choice...
    [​IMG]
    To add character I scratch built some scatter terrain, like these:
    [​IMG]
    ...and gradually switched cheap old ideas witch purchased scenery to enhance the overall looks:
    [​IMG]

    So basically - Infinity scenery can be scratch build, but the process is tedious and time consuming compared to other games. It is difficult to achieve end a purchased-board level of end results. It's easier and so much faster to just grab entire thing from a store. Some even come pre-painted.

    Sorry for a long post. Just wanted to show that it's not because the community is small or not invested. You don't see many Infinity scenery tutorials, because Infinity is on a totally different level than most other games. Not to leave you empty handed, here's a list of my own tuts that might come in handy.

    Scratch built Infinity scenery: https://scarhandpainting.com/tutorial-infinity-do-it-yourself-gaming-terrain/
    Scratch built Infinity Consoles: https://scarhandpainting.com/tutorial-infinity-diy-console/
    Ten articles about "The Colony" gaming boards, from zero to hero with work in progress pics, tutorials and overall intel on what I used:
    https://scarhandpainting.com/tag/the-colony/


    You see, with youtube it is a different story. Youtubers go where the money is. Large 40k (and other mainstream games) fanbase means more views, means more dough from ads. This is why most prominent youtubers stick to GW - this is where the largest group of viewers is centered around. Sad, but also it is what it is.

    In recent years we saw an explosion of new content creators for Infinity. Hopefully in time this group will grew even larger and deliver a solid content.
     
    ogrekin, Oni, Wizzy and 12 others like this.
  8. Pierzasty

    Pierzasty Null-Space Entity

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    I only regret that I have but one like to give for this post.
     
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  9. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
    Warcor

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    Outstanding post Nazaroth and eloquently put.
     
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  10. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    Great job, @nazroth!

    In addition, @TheDiceAbide and his associates are known to make tables. Maybe they can also provide their experiences.
     
    nazroth likes this.
  11. Thank you so much everyone for your observations. You have confirmed some suspicions I had and pointed out things I had missed.

    Special thanks to @nazroth for his post, very interesting and illustrative.
     
    nazroth likes this.
  12. Gwynbleidd

    Gwynbleidd Non asto coram malo

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    If you have not the time to create any of the wonderful terrain shown, there are a large number of sellers that do official Infinity stuff. These include but are but limited to: Antenocitis workshop, Micro arts studio, warsenal, customeeple, ttcombat, I think there are even some things on sarissa precision. There are loads of sellers out there but I understand that budget is also a consideration and these things can be costly (especially when you’re trying to fill a board).

    As @nazroth has shown, there are a large number of ways you can construct a board but certain terrain can be easier than others. I’ve been building scenery for games from historical to 40K and back again for around the same amount of time (I feel old now) and grimdark and historical stuff can be easy but the more anime/clean city feel of some infinity worlds can be difficult to make. We had some success with fish tank plants of various colours and sizes for paradiso a few years back. You can see parts of them in Kyrell Gaming’s video of white banner vs Usariadna with Fast Panda gaming.

    The links that @nazroth supplied for building Infinity terrain are very useful, and he’s quite correct that it’s not because the community is small or not invested, it’s just that the Infinity demographic can get buried amidst the other YouTube Wargames stuff. Oh, there may also be some useful information fir terrain creation on Luke’s APS (I apologise that I cannot include the link here right now, I will attempt to do so later but if someone gets there first please post it).

    If you do create any terrain, please post it, we’d love to see it!
     
  13. infyrana

    infyrana Well-Known Member

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    Used to be that people posted pictures or videos for free... with the pay models making people richer than their average day job, it stands to rights that people are putting up videos where they are going to get views. Views = pay. So with a smaller potential market, the content makers are rarer in their numbers, but everyone out there that's trying I've no doubt you have the community appreciation.

    On the plus side, CB are putting in some very nice scenery in their boxsets. I for one appreciate this very much.

    @nazroth great post and nice setups :) Somebody like myself without the kind of mindset to build those would struggle, thankfully as above there are other options.
     
    nazroth likes this.
  14. Blakhart

    Blakhart Well-Known Member

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    So, I draw comics... illustrations.
    With line art, drawing, art in general, there are some basic foundational rules that should be followed. How it ends up is where style comes in.
    Same with scratch built terrain.
    I would say, look not for Infinity specific how to and just look at general terrain videos, blogs. To make them Infinity, that's on you and your particular taste. I personally like super clean anime style structures. Bright and flat. You might like Blade-Runner grity look. Looking for specific Infinity vids might go down a road you don't gel with visually.
    I would look for vids on basic techniques as opposed to specific Infinity tutorials. That way you can learn to tackle any terrain issue AND leave room for your own style.
    Good luck and hope to see some stuff soon!
     
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