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Mercs getting to be too much?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Space Ranger, Sep 4, 2019.

  1. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    I don't think that will be the case. Plus I don't mind that they make more stuff in the Human Sphere or the Infinity universe at large. I personally like the idea of Aristeia! and how it expounds on sports in the 23rd century. CB just has to be careful about proper balance of the stuff they are adding into Infinity that appears in these other games. Which in some instances didn't work out as well in a good portion of the players' opinions.

    I hope the situation is handled so that there is no tunnel vision or herding into certain units/characters that have to be taken in order to win. Warhammer is and has become the notorious example of that. And we don't want Infinity to become like 40k or Sigmar. Where the side games like Killteam, Necromunda, Warcry & Blood Bowl are more appealing (in my personal opinion) than the main flagship games.
     
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  2. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Hey no salt here. Don't confused criticism with being angry. I just don't think what they are doing is right. I actually love a lot of the mercs. However, since Yu Jing lost JSA to the NA2, Yu Jing as lost some of its flavor. I really like some of the faction exclusive profiles for the Beasthunters though and I hope they decided to do more like that. I think it's something they could have done with the Triphammer and Prospector as well.
     
  3. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    A revised list with today's release on Army. Yes this is Yu Jing. But how would you know? lol.


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7 [​IMG]4 [​IMG]3
    TRIPHAMMER AP Spitfire, Heavy Flamethrower / AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 58)
    DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14)
    DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14)
    BEASTHUNTERS (Surprise Attack [-3], Camouflage, Forward Deployment [+8"]) Heavy Flamethrower, Panzerfaust, AP Mines / EXP CC Weapon(+1B), Pistol. (0 | 16)
    REM RACER (Hacker, RemDriver [+1 BS], Hacking Device) Submachine Gun ( ) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 21)
    MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Chain-colt(+1B) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 8)
    BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 12)
    BOUNTY HUNTER Combi Rifle / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 15)
    BOUNTY HUNTER Combi Rifle / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 15)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]1
    DĀOYĪNG (Lieutenant [+1 Order]) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 22)
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 8)
    HAWKWOOD (Chain of Command) Red Fury, Nanopulser(+1B) / MULTI Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (1 | 45)
    KNAUF MULTI Sniper Rifle / AP Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    5.5 SWC | 299 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  4. Ashtaroth

    Ashtaroth Aragoto GP Organizer
    Warcor

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    The Chayi is a dead giveaway this is YJ, so is the LT... xD

    Also, that's a really cute meme list. Other than Knauf the list has no guns that go past 24" on good range. The rest will come with high variance, but statistic tells the list will have a lot of +1 ARM, Grenades and Light Flamethrowers. No way this outperfoms, or is otherwise perceived as strong as a generic list. If the exercise is showing us that a skew list of mercs work, then, that's cool. The "getting to be too much", I don't believe so.
     
  5. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    The list is mostly to make a point.
    Chayi, Fugazi, Fanous are all the same thing with a different name. "Proxy" a Fugazi and it's even harder. Also Lt. in Camo? Grouped with Liberto minelayer. I'm saying at a glance it's hard. It would be even harder if it was Haqq with a Hafza.

    I took Hawkwood for CoC specialist but he can be switched out for Armand, Oktavia, or Lunah.
     
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  6. Ashtaroth

    Ashtaroth Aragoto GP Organizer
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    There's no other WIP14 Lieutenant+1 Order in the game that begins in Camo. Only Daoying. So yeah, that's a dead giveaway.

    Is the point: I can make an almost all-merc list? That's cute.
    Is the point: I can make an almost all-merc list stripping factions from identity? Well, you were the one that actively opted out of a faction appealing units and strategy for some random dudes.
    Is the point: I can make an almost all-merc list that's very competitive? Yeah, no. I disagree. Most of those profiles are mediocre (bar the Liberto probably, and maybe one or two other mercs), they fill holes and niches, but are not strong enough in a vacuum to form a good core strategy.
     
  7. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    For me yes the point is that it's getting to be too much. Especially for Yu Jing who lost half it's force. They are adding mercs faster than new troops. YJ has lost some faction identity. I expect even more next year with whatever KS they will do again. Unless it's more like Defiance and they are faction oriented. But there's also the usual adepticon and gencon figures theat tend to be mercs. Also the fact some mercs are mediocre doesn't matter. Some of this mediocre are still better than the faction troops. Like I will always take a Monstrucker over a mech engineer every time. I'll take Lunah before a Bao. ABH before Zhanshi. The Beast Hunter is sadly my best CC specialist.
     
  8. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Can you post the lists you actually bring to tournaments, or that other Yu Jing players are bringing to tournaments, that are overly diluted by mercs?

    'Cause when I'm facing Yu Jing, it's Hac Taos, Su-Jians, Blue Wolfs, Long Yas, Daoyings, Guilangs, Daofeis, Monstruckers, Shaolins, Kuang Shi, Hsien, Rui Shi, Lu Duan, Liberto, Liang Kai, Tigers, Liu Xing, Armand, Shang Ji that I'm seeing.

    Yeah, 4 of the 19 I listed are mercs. Is that the dilution you're talking about?
     
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  9. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying it is a fact. I can only say how I feel. I know I would take those. I haven't been or seen a tournament in years. If you don't think it's too much, good for you. I even have mixed feelings because I love some of the mercs. like I said I'd take some of them over YJ many times.
     
    #129 Space Ranger, Dec 25, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2021
  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    That's gaslighting more than discussing faction identity...
    Not that I agree that it's the mercs that's causing factions to lose identity, but hey.
     
    #130 Mahtamori, Dec 25, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Part of the problem, as well, is that the vanilla rosters don't have too many meaningful limitations.
     
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  12. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    I've come to think vanilla shouldn't get access to all the options for all the units. There should be many more choices that are sectorial exclusive.
     
  13. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    That could work out depending on which sectorial gets what. Lest one sectorial comes out as more powerful than their brethren in a faction.
     
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Yup. But all the vanillas got Triphammers and stuff.
     
  15. Elric of Grans

    Elric of Grans Well-Known Member

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    Could someone clarify this question for me? Which mercenaries, available to all vanilla factions, are the ones that are either 'too good' in specific factions (eg Mech-Engineer is outclassed by Monstrucker) or otherwise dilute the flavour of a given faction?

    While I feel like there are too many mercenaries, 99% of my experience is sectorial vs sectorial and so this is not something I have the experience to properly understand.
     
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  16. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Well you are right in that some are good/bad depending on the faction. Some fill a need that wasn't there before and some are not as good as what was there before. For Yu Jing, the Monstrucker is better than our Mech Engineer but he's a bit of a waste in Nomads. PanO needed another TAG like a hole in the head and I've heard of no one using a Cube Jagger since they first came out. But everyone takes the Liberto if they can. Just for my personal taste, in Yu Jing my top ones are Liberto, Monstrucker, Beast Hunter, Bounty Hunters, Le Muet, Nauf. I've yet to see how the Diggers and Tripphammer are. Though I have a feeling that if I happen to have 14pts and need a regular order and only 1, I'll take a Digger before a Zhanshi or Celestial Guard.

    I've got a lot of mixed feelings on them. I actually like a lot of them. I guess what would help is defining what flavor means. To me it's when you have troops that everyone else also has. Making your force a little less Unique. However, as mentioned some just won't be taken anyway. So does it really matter? I really like what they did recently with Beast Hunters with profiles unique to certain factions. That would be cool to do with Bounty Hunters and Diggers.

    If they do another Kickstarter, I hope it's the remote racing thing. I'm guessing then we may get some new unique remotes. Hopefully not generic that everyone gets. But then again I hate that KS are limited to a privileged few and we don't see general release of them for years.
     
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  17. Dyne

    Dyne Well-Known Member

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    I agree that all vanilla armies have too many mercenaries, aristeia characters... and now miners doing black ops :sweat_smile:. They are not mandatory, but for me they kill the fluff.
     
  18. Daniel Darko

    Daniel Darko Well-Known Member
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    I am pro mercenaries and I was delighted, when Hannibal was available as a "Soldier of Fortune"-Extra. He is 100% merc and he can be the lieutenant. Now, with SoF I can make a 100% Mercenary-Army with no traceble faction-identity. That's fun.^^
     
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  19. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    For what it's worth, I really dislike all the mercenaries being added. They actively detract from the game for me.
     
  20. Muad'dib

    Muad'dib Well-Known Member

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    I really wish CB had limited mercs to only NA2 armies, which I thought was the while point of these factions to begin with. It would have been great if the new tag raid profiles had been Druze/Ikari exclusive - breathe some new life into these factions and give people a reason to start new armies to use the new profiles.

    No mercenaries should be available in any vanilla faction, and they should be very limited in non-NA2 sectorials as well. Druze, Kaplans, and Scarface all make sense in QK based on the long established fluff, but I have no idea why they have Fiddler or Wild Bill. Or why Wild Bill is linkable with Janissaries. There are plenty of examples in other factions where the mercenary seems like it was add "just 'cause“ rather than for storyline consistent reasons.
     
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