How useful are Muyibs?

I see them as a toolbox and they're probably the best Core link the Hassasins have. They're cheaper than Govads have great long range options, specially with their X Visor, the grenade launcher is great for covering your advance or throwing down spec smoke or damage, great board control since they have access to viral mine minelayers and they have access to a doctor, something Govads don't.

 

Muyibs are very flexible. I rate Govads a lot, as MSV1 and Veteran L1 are both useful, but they lack the flexibility of a Muyib team, where almost everyone has a lot of tactical options. Your basic Muyib has the Rifle+LSG but also packs a Panzerfaust or DEP, has a deployable weapon or is a SWC trooper, so they've got a loooot of flexibility in terms of how they engage. Want to go for CQB? That's fine, they have shotguns, mines and a Spitfire. Want to keep them away? That's fine, they have the HRL, X-Visors, Panzerfausts and DEPs.

The advantage of the Govads is probably offensively, which befits their status as a seek-and-destroy force. They find and they kill. The Muyibs are, in the background, a demolitions force (which they excel at in game, due to D-Charges and various explosive weapons, meaning they are good for classifieds and certain scenarios) but in game they are a very flexible light infantry, and they also have more link flexibility, padding out an Asawira Haris too, and with two characters able to join them adding yet more flexibility (a team with an FO, Leila and a Doc+ is able to carry out any non engineering based classified objective, and these days that means Test Run. Given you draw two and pick one, they are basically able to carry out any classified mission you assign them, which is useful!)

 

Someone has to kick the door in.

 

From my persprctive I can't see Govads as my core link. I like muyibs more. They are cheap, have dogged and number 2 that makes link extremely persistent. Yeah, it can be killed with shock ammo with ease shock it's a special tool that opponent should deliver first. Muyibs have a pile of PF, for 0 SWC and it's a thing. B2 BS 15 (18) AP EXP weapon is not walk in the park. Plus viral mines. Plus X visor HRL and spitfire. Plus smoke GL. Weapon options are amazing.
Muyibs not have a fancy MSV but if you need to kill something with no TO or ODD Muyibs are right dudes.

 

Muyibs are my primary offensive HB link. Unbreakable thanks to No2, slightly difficult to get rid iff because Dogged, fast, bringing their own specialists but still can bring other spec ops, can act as bodyguards to Asawiras, are armed to teeth with free panzerfausts, in a matter of fact they are always bringing big booms, carrying xvisors on special wepons and they are cheap.

Just like the rest of sectorial, good bruteforce tools. I am often using solo HRL in vanila.

They are very persistent link, able to bring heavier opponents or other links down.

 

Fuckin' A!

 

It depends on the situation. If you find yourself dealing with Camo, TO Camo, ODD etc, then Govads have a clear advantage and it's not a small one. MSV1 gets a bad rep but it's still pretty damn good, and I've successfully lit up Hac Taos, Sukaels and so on with that linked HMG. It's very good at that job (and an absolutely beautiful mini to boot). They are the only troops in the Bahram with that, and on a link team it can be very powerful. But that's the thing, powerful =/= flexible, and sometimes flexibility is worth more.

Generally when building a list, I ask myself where my firepower is coming from. If it's coming from the link, and I have plenty of other flexible options, then Govads are better. If my link is providing me tactical flexibility, or rather needs to do so, then Muyibs are a better choice. But both are good. And I have to say, I don't really rate V: Dogged these days that much, especially in a faction with such excellent Doctors. It does, however, add another option, which just goes into the "flexibility" strength column, really.

 

Don't let the X-visor spitfire trick you, neither the HRL, the spitfire isn't a really good long-range weapon, the x-visor just helps a bit.
The HRL is better for long-range shoots, but a Muyib HRL don't beat a Govad HMG.

Muyibs are a middle-field push team/toolbox, Govads are the true long-range killers at HB, they have better options for that and are better shooters than Ghulams ( don't underestimate MSV1).

 

I don't know if you're looking from only Hassassin Bahram's perspective, or from Vanilla too.
BUT - I played a bit with Hassassins and a LOT with Vanilla and here's few thoughts about boht of those guys:
Muyibs are cheaper - and it's important. They sometimes get fielded in Vanilla too - especially HRL guy. 1SWC for such a platform for such a weapon ? Yes please. He also have D-Charges, which can be handy, not only in ITS (and not only for plugging them, we have Hawwas for that, but for detonating from safe distance ;) ).
And looking from the sectorial perspective - two words - Yasbir and Leila! Some people underestimate the power of Yasbir, but he can be really helpful. Preferably in the infiltrating option, but I used him also in the link and I was really pleased with him. And Leila - makes the link even cheaper, but with even more of a kick, thanks to KHD, SMR and all the other nice stuff she brings :)
Muyibs also have Doctor Plus - and it's great. And Minelayers. And No2... it's easier to write what they don't have ;) Their versatility is great.

While Govads - looking from Vanilla perspective - never got into my Haqq list. Didn't see a place for any of them in my rooster, other units do things they do better or cheaper IMO.
While in Hassassins they are important and reliable - as a hunter team. They are far better on a distant fight, with their HMG, Sniper and Missile Launchers. Great thing is that the ML guy also packs a light shotgun :)
If you have the points you can build a nice link team with them. And they won't crumble against camouflaged troops.

For me it's best to have both of the options, Muyibs and Govads, and decide which to use depending on the enemy/table setup (low vis zones!)/scenario.


PozdRawiam / Greetings

 

They're definitely cheaper in SWC

I dunno that they're really cheaper in points.

Leila, a Spitfire, a HRL, a Doctor+ and the basic LT profile is 121pts for Muyibs, but a HMG, a Missile Launcher, KHD, LT and N2 for Govads is only 125pts. It's only 4pts more, and indeed the reason Muyibs cost less really is because of Leila bringing the average down by only costing 20pts.

If you have loads of stuff to spend SWC on then sure, the Muyibs have an advantage (and that's a fair deal, maybe you want a Lasiq and/or Daylami Panzerfausts) but if you aren't really bothered by the SWC (which is also a fair deal, because the Farzan CoC is 0 SWC, the Ayyar Marksman is 0 SWC, Fidays are 0 SWC etc) then it's a difference of... 4pts. Can't even get a Ghazi for that.

 

Tbh, we always do thanks to PzF daylami.

I'd say that muyibs may be a bit underwhelming as door-kicking Core link (and even moreso as individuals in vanilla since we have tougher models for that, or those just starting upfield), but they do bring some unique things, like Core'd LGL, HRL, their minelayer profiles are pretty great too (can help in Asawira Haris) - even E-mauler profile is interesting, since unlike E-mauler Ghulam they still retain regular mines.

That said, the more I think about it, the more I question Muyib core simply because of their cost. Sometimes they feel the best bet (I'd use them in Biotechvore, some LI game or maaaaybe Quadrant control unless I'm going for some gimmick), but they aren't exactly "faction strength".

IMO if you're taking them as a Core, you'd better leverage their options other links don't get.

 

Muyibs and Govads are better at HB than at Vanilla, but yeah, i like the HRL for ARO duty, he's cheap and effective.

But we (Haqq players) understimate MSV1 vs. MSV2 because we have a lot of smoke, i think that if you want a MSV and don't have the points for Djan's, go for Govads!

MSV1 could be better, but ist not bad.

Agreed, they aren't a must have.

 

Muyibs are specialists and button pushers.

Govads are land grabbing, and hunter killing.

 

THANK YOU

 

I mean, this thesis is repeated every time similar discussions arise. But it doesn't address the real question that is often implied: when to use Muyibs as button pushers, or in any other role, over other options and why use specifically Govads as killers unless you know you will be facing table with foliage and a lot of mimetism+.

 

I use Govads if I know I am going to be facing Combined/Ariadna. When I prep for tournaments I actually build 2 lists to do things not per mission but per common strategies by opponents. I know Ariadna/Combined/Nomads/Aleph have a lot of ODD/CAMO/Mimetism so I build a Govad centric list with a Muyib Haris for objectives, or a Ghulam Core with a Govad Haris hunting team. for all others I build a Ghulam list with Asawira/Muyib Haris (this of course all in HB). If in Vanilla I almost always have a Djan HMG and SNiper so the MSV1 is not as usefull. My govads have done great work hunting even TO and ODD units with their HMG. Ariadna hates it when their Kazaks lose their mimitism/camo advantage.

 

I don't have that much experience with HB, but I would like to share my observation about muyibs from my last game against ISS: Muyibs are one of the most sustainable link in Haqq. They held their ground in the middle the whole game. It was pure ground denial for my opponent. Mines, deadly weapons capable to easily take down any HI, almost unbreakable due to no2 and dogged, which holds 5-man team advantage until the end of reactive turn. (mission was decapitation and Lt. was in the link... so it tests them well)

Muyibs versus Govads: for me it's nobrainer. I don't like Govad minis much. And I'm pretty satisfied with the performance with my two teams in the field (Asawira harris + muyib core) in my few games with HB... that's why I play them. MUYIBS! :)

 

I suppose it's something to field on LI or maybe zone control missions. What's your opinion on this kind of list outside those?

I feel you kind of have to give up a good part of "hassassin dirty shenanigans" for that.

 

As I said, my exerience with HB is limited. I'm pretty much QK and vanilla player.

as for your 2nd q.: Asawira harris (just for the record, I mean Spitfire + 2 muyibs) + muyib core is about 213 points (Leila included). It's SWC heavy (about 5 or 5,5). But there is still enough room for some surprises. There's some 80+ point for shenanigans, which is enough if you have two solid links with bunch of specialists. My favourite addition (except Ghazis) is Farzan minelayer. Well maybe Fiday could be hard to get in, but not impossible... I don't think mission selection is that limited for this playstile - control is great, killing works fine too, and there are also quite good objective capturing capabilities... That's just the way I play HB. For more sneaky play I use vanilla Haqq, for more fluff by belowed QK.

as for your 1st q.: Muyib minelayer (viral) is great for vanilla, especialy against some armies. Spitfire works quite well in Recon (but I probably still prefer Kaplan or Odalisque for his role)

My favourite Muyib list... just for the picture:
Asawira spitfire, Leila, Muyib doc, M. FO, M. viral minelayer, M. spitfire, M. HRL, M. Lt. LGL... last time accompanied with: Farzan FO, Farzan minelayer, 4 Ghazis (one with BS), Daylami PF+camo, Fanous