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Removing ARO threat. HB

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Board, Oct 25, 2021.

  1. Board

    Board New Member

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    I'm an inexperienced player. I play against a friend who fields Yu Jing. He routinely uses Major Luna. I really struggle against her. I think one reason is too little terrain but also just how to engage her.

    I've looked at Al Jabel and Fidays. The issue is that he'll deploy in camo. How do I engage him without taking a ftf roll? I may be missing things with how to get into melee with these guys?

    My longer range options seem/are unreliable or its just not a good trade against her and get taken out too easily.

    We've got smoke but no white noise to counter her MSV and no Eclipse Grenades.

    I look forward to your advice! Thanks!
     
  2. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    A Fiday can discover-shoot her pretty effectively - inside 8" and outside cover, the discover is on a 15 and the shotgun is two dice on 14s, or you can trade using the shotgun template.

    A fireteam or Rafiq can also discover her at long range, although my inclination would be to just wait until she reveals voluntarily. Once she's revealed, an Asawira spitfire can maneuver into 24" and will be plenty to take her out, even unlinked. Yara will be even better since she sees through Lunah's mimetism. But the most straightforward answer is just a direct application of the Shakush HMG.

    That said, if you want to really build a list around dealing with her, a Govad HMG in a core link is HB's apex option for discover-shooting her.
     
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  3. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    The strong CC abilities of the Fiday do look tempting, but getting into melee is not always necessary or efficient. Discover + Shoot on short range with WIP 15 will almost never fail, and if you field the shock mine Fiday, you could even drop one with intuitive attack (again at a fairly reliable WIP 15), to make the following engagement or any attempt at an AROing your troops a risky deal for Lunah. Worst case you trade with your shotgun and likely remove a critical defensive piece around the same cost of your Fiday. Making space for the rest of your list is porbably worth it, considering you're having such trouble with her. Then again, you are probably also right about the lack of terrain. A single sniper should not be able to shut down your game plan. Make sure to arrange the terrain in a way that allows for various approaches to mission objectives, and place (partially) LOS breaking terrain across long fire lanes.
     
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  4. Board

    Board New Member

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    So if I go for the Fiday - discover as first short skill. Then shoot if the 75% success works out. What happens if the discovery roll fails? My dice hate me on important rolls even when the odds are in my favour...
     
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  5. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    If you declare discover + shoot, your opponent will likely reveal Lunah anyway with an ARO of their own, so they don't just take your shots without opposition in the likely case that you succeed with the discover. As the active turn player, you can pretty much strongarm your opponent into a losing position.

    If they decide to risk it anyway and win the gamble, you'll need another model to discover her or place an intuitive attack mine with your Fiday, so she will get blasted the next time she AROs to one of your other troops.
     
    #5 Knauf, Oct 25, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    If your Discover roll fails, then you can't try again this turn. Count your luck they didn't stick a mine down near/instead of Lunah and keep going about your business, but keep avoiding exposure of secondary units to her. If you have Yara or a Govad in a core you can always punish her if she reveals and in such a case dropping smoke on her will harm her shooting more than yours.
    Save two orders for the Fiday in case she drops camo to shoot her or to move out of LOF to go back into IMP-1

    You can also keep a long range State ARO, such as a Daylami or Nadhir, staring at her position in case she tries something silly like Triangulated Shot or declaring shooting before moving.
     
  7. Board

    Board New Member

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    Sorry I don't understand how the smoke helps. With her MSV1 she'll be on -3. But then I've got -3 aswell plus her mimitism putting me on -6. Its then also my only shot as none of the rest have MSV?

    Daylami positioning is a good shout. 2nd Fiday will be on the list too.
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    She gets -6 from the smoke which MSV1 doesn't reduce and if you're in a Fireteam Core you have Sixth Sense meaning that if she shoots you back you're not getting the -6 but she still is.
     
  9. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    You have your whole list to discover her (including disposable daylami) or bait out of camo by just playing the game - and then outshoot her
     
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  10. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    As you said @Board if your terrain is too open, maybe it could be part of the problem, but precisely "hassasin" has the tools to deal against ARO pieces like "Lunah".

    A lot of disposable pieces with VOL 15/13 Ghazi/Daylamis which you can try a long "discover", until 32' (80cm) you have 0 modifiers, so, taking in consideration covert+mimetism a Ghazi have 45% success, so, no problem there. Daylamis have lower chances, but they can do properly "discover+BS attack" (panzerfaust option).

    Any member of a five member fireteam can do discover with at least 55% chances of success if placed inside the 0 mods. VOL14 +3 plus fireteam bonuses -3 mimetism -3 covert=11. Itsn't so bad.

    And of course: the fiday, with the opportunity to get into 8'(20cm) to gain the +3 to discover and probably with no covert malus, your "roll" should be succesful 3 of 4 games :D You do: "discover", the enemy can do nothing or discover Lunah, if Luna dodge you can do "shoot" the shootgun rolling the dice or placing the template (You are making probably "surprise" attack, and Lunah hasn't too high Physical stats, so you can put the templates. If she survives you can kill her in CC), if do nothing, you declare template attack and roll the dice: here probably Lunah will be killed.

    If you don't feel confident rolling the dices because probably you have a false sensation of bad luck I recomend you to put "baits" to your enemy in order to manage the "auto leave of camo state". I will probably follow this order in that case:


    First: Declare "move"+"discover" or "discover+shoot" (it depends of what kind of weapon the model has) with your "disposable" pieces, the "irregular cheap one" in no camo state, if you have.

    Lunah was discovered? Yes. Killed? Yes. --> Problem solved.

    Was only discovered? Yes.

    It is time to take care of her: you can pick any long range shooter you have (probably an asawira spitifre or a hmg govad, maybe even Yarah). In this point, only if you have really bad luck" the "Lunah problem" will be not fixed.

    The long range models aren't an option... then it is time to left things in fiday's hands. Engage against Lunah and do a CCAttack. Problem solved.

    Lunah wasn't discovered in the first disposables try?

    Then you can choose waste orders with "your fireteam members with long range weapons" or "do use of some fiday", as some explain above.

    Still, if you don't feel to confortable using a direct approach I recomend you to use "the indirect one".

    Place smoke between your troups and the camo which should be Lunah (be sure you has a fiday close enough). Move your models, catch objetives and kill any other things you can see while you are hidden behind the smoke. If your ememy reveals Lunah, in the next order pickup that fiday not too far and kill her. If she don't show up, you can hide your tropus after do all the things you want and wait for your rival turn.

    I talk as it was too easy, but I'm aware it isnt'. What I'm trying to say is that you have the tools in hassasin to deal with things like Lunah in a lot of ways. It is more a matter of patience than bad rolls.

    For example: if you are positive of what camo marker is the one for Lunah, you can place a fiday close to it and wait. If she reveals herself in your active turn you will kill her, if not, you can try to kill her when she tried to do something, if she moves away the enemy player will be wasting orders to "keep it save", so, it will be not killing your models.

    Best of lucks!
     
  11. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Many good tactics here - I can agree with most of them.
    From my perspective - get some Ghazi and use impetuous to run into LoF of Lunah (and in ideal situation only Lunah). She can reveal herself to kill the Ghazi - so dodge or smoke dodge. If she doesn't - discover her. Then another Ghazi. You don't have to use regular orders for that.
    And remember that if Ghazi won't be killed, he can quite fast get closer to enemy. I have few games in which Ghazi's chain rifles killed enemy's snipers ;) They just have to get a bit of help to smoke the way to get close.
    I also suggest thinking about Govad HMG in a full Fireteam or in Haris with some Wildcards. She should remove the problem of Lunah. Or get Yara Haddad - who can be deployed closer to enemy and wit few orders can even get so close, that she'll be in her positive range, while Lunah won't. Similar with Farzan for example - if someone else discovers Lunah, a well positioned Farzan can surprise shot her with ease, especially that he can be close to her already - in better range band.

    TBH there are many solutions - the more you'll play, the more you'll see :)


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
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  12. Board

    Board New Member

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    Thanks for your ideas guys - appreciated. He's good at not committing her and leaves her prone making her hard to straight up discover. I'll look at baiting her out or using my Fiday to discover as he'll be able to get LoS.
     
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