Yes. No. TAGs changes were done right, I think, doing the changes one step at a time with N4 and the crit changes were the last step. This is slapping two pretty hefty advantages onto a pretty diverse and cheap category of troops (the latter always makes any broad changes really swingy for results), one of these buffs a bunch of those units already have and are paying for. And to reiterate, I don't think bikes are broken. Most motorcycles are difficult to use, not weak - like N3 ISS where 2 out of 3 players performed well below average while 1 out of 3 players performed well enough to compensate the combined average. This isn't a category that needs fixing, unlike TAGs where the actually good TAGs were in pretty clear minority. So going forward after this season I hope they take that to heart and do the restructuring that some - not all! - bikes need to the bikes that need it.
The MBH re-release seems to be a pretty funny chain of events. 1) Changing silhouette size on minis when they rolled a bike on the booty table lead to some hilarious situations with bikes stuck on top of buildings, wedged into spots their silhouettes wouldn't fit etc. 2) N4 rules! Let's just simplify booty to give Mov 8-4. We won't need to deal with the silhouette change and Booty works pretty much the same. 3) Everyone is sad they can't use their MBH models. What can we do to fix this? 4) Re-release the Bounty Hunter on a bike! Hey, why don't we make this season about bikes? 5) Oprah mode activated. You get mimetism! You get to use cover! You get a free bike! Everybody gets a free bike! 6) When deploying your bike you roll a 15, followed by a re-rolled 15. Your Motorized Bounty Hunter can dismount her bike, running alongside her duo buddy making Brrm Brrm Brrm noises.
I'm irritated Looting and Sabotage still sucks for ISS. I'm supposed to be playing it tonight. Literally only 4 troops that can accomplish that mission. Crane and ninja (AVA 1) with DA weapons. Zhanying and Sophotech (AVA1) with D-charges. It's all about defense with their own I guess, the panoplies and secret objective. However with White Banner/Vanilla, Daofei is the boss! All have D-charges, infiltrate of course but now also and extra 1" move because of terrain total. Ye Mao ENG is also good with that. Blue Wolf also has 7-4 move. I just wish Tigers had D-charges. IA gained a little extra movement on Zhencha but the good one doesn't have D-charges. So they are about the same as before. Edit: I guess I shouldn't complain. NCA and Varuna seem to have it much worse with only 3 that can do it.
Actually accomplishing missions in N4 has always been a problem for ISS, but ITS13 definitely throws a few curve balls to make it even worse. It's not to say ISS was entirely shut out, those AVA2 MBHs are going to be nothing short of incredible assets going into the new season. But aside from that, they just inherently are lacking in mission-accomplishing tools and options meant to take advantage of the new mechanics. At least the Su Jian is excited to roll around in the snow, that thing is going to have a field day.
Well L&S was a loss for Yu Jing. I was stuck between a Hortlak Sniper (MSV1, Mim-3) in a haris, and a hard place. he stopped me from doing anything and then Fiddler came up and F-ed me with her bots. I'd sometimes put them down only to have her fix them back. I felt like I was wasting my opponents time by that point. It was kind of cool having the extra inch of movement on my Daofei and Ye Mao but I was totally outclassed. If I saw that mission was going to be used in a tourney, I would NOT play Yu Jing. The few tools we have to accomplish the mission are all in your deployment or so expensive, if you loose them, you can't do anything from there on.
I once played a L&S round back in N3, my NCA vs. OSS. Since Andromeda was still a total waste of points at the time, the fight devolved into one of my Auxilia trying to slap looted D-Charges onto the objective and mostly missing while my opponent's Marut tried to wade its way through an entire list to punch down my AC2. Absolutely hilarious yet frustrating game. These days, as an NCA player, I wouldn't even bother showing up to a tournament if I saw L&S on the mission list; so many factions can achieve the objectives within three orders while I'm stuck with one or two choices barely fit for the job- and I hate the playstyle of them, too. It's sad seeing a fairly experienced VANILLA FACTION player having the same opinion on the mission, when YJ should have so many more approaches. I think the SO Liu Xing has D-Charges and a fair CC score if you want to try and score on Turn 3 after you've worn out the enemy defenses more conventionally, so that's one more option at least.
IA uses D Charges for this mission anyway so the ADS literally doesn't affect them, they're actually better off than before because it takes 1 less wound to do the job now. TBH I don't really see White Banner being particularly affected by the change either, the game comes down to whether or not you can clear the way for a Daofei or Yemao to reach the target to apply D-Charges.
I think it's worse now. I'm not sure if I'm not seeing it but I don't think there's any option to take D-charges instead of the looted item. They are affected in that they gain the movement. It was pretty cool moving 7-4 with the Daofei. I tried to clear the way for getting to the AC but the Hortak had me pinned down pretty well. I tired doing a surprise shot with my second daofei spitfire but he had a lot of things in such a way, anything I tried against it he had plenty of ARO. I took a wound and got Stunned from a TR HMG and FO bot. I later used that Daofei to get a Panoply. I had my AC2 unit surrounded by Shaolin but Fiddler just laughed at it with her bot killing or engaging them while she planted D-charges and destroyed it. It's games like that that really make me wonder why I play this game.
D-Charges did go missing in the Panoply. One thing also worth noting is the AC2 just got a little easier to kill in ITS13, as you no longer have to take it through a damaged state. An advantage that Yu Jing have is a pretty good ability to layer up defenses around their own AC2 - mines, madtraps, visors, templates and hacking areas can make it a pretty hostile area. Mines are mandatory as they're the only thing that will detonate on a token, so could nail an incoming Saito etc. If you can't swing at the enemy AC2 at least you can make it hard for them to attack yours. For ISS a crane with a gang-up assist is one still one of the best quarterbacks IMO, perhaps in a haris with a tinbot. Hacking will always be a problem for Yu Jing though, and if there are layered up hackers and repeaters around the AC2 you'll generally only get one swing before getting bricked. It's never an easy mission, but Vanilla, WB and IA do have lots of choices - Shaolin, Liang Kai, Hulang, Liu Xing, Dao Fei, Ninja, Hac Tao, Jing Qo etc.
Dao Fei should be 7-2 Mov, right? Or 7-3 with a dodge? Terrain Total only grants +1 Mov to the first portion of movement.
Correct. I'll say that was fun for some reason. Felt like I was getting away with cheating lol. But a 7-2/3 Infiltrator is fantastic (in those missions that allow it). It's not like Carlos said in the video. Not all tables have the rule.
I don't see how it got worse for YJ also? Dao Fei is boosted in most missions, and is still awesome for L&S. Also Van and WBA have access to Liang Kai and DA monks, they may not be the *best* units for the job, but they make great back ups. D charge would make the armory need 3 11s (which is awesome), but Liang Kai would make it need 3(Potentially 4) 9s and Monks would be 2(Potentially 3) 8s. Now again that doesn't make them superior options, but consider how cheap both of the options are for a 10/15% swing in passing the armor roll, it isn't that bad at all. Especially if a Monk just smokes it and whacks it uncontested. PS - Wowwwww forgot L&S also got the ADS woooooops
Anything armed with D-Charges doesn't need to swing. If it plants them via the D-Charge rules there's no F2F roll and the ADS doesn't attack it's scenery, it doesn't declare AROs like Troopers do. Its rules require you to use a CC Attack to trigger the Automated Defense System. Secondly the Crane (and other models) cannot get any gang up bonuses for friendlies assisting. The ADS cannot have MODs applied to them. The burst bonus for multiple enemies is a MOD. You can't add Martial Arts to the CC attack, that includes the damage MOD. Liang Kai and Monks are stuck at PH13, so the AC2 in Looting and Sabotaging saves on 6+s against them. Use D-Charges or don't bother for the most part.
Indications from people who are known to... Be a bit more in the know than most... Indicate that planting D-charges on an AC2 or similar is not intended to be possible any more
Could you link that? Not that it particularly matters to me, the rule is an unfortunate dumb as fuck addition to the season and I plan to TO this one as the way the RAW currently works (if not forgo it entirely mission dependent).
I haven't seen anything official, there seems to be interpretations both ways, I am hoping to get a clarification of it too.
It's not an official source, so linking is pointless, but do bring stuff like this up in the ITS section so that Helllois is sure to be aware of it. That said, the general inability for Yu Jing to harm an AC2 isn't necessarily an ITS issue.
I don't get this. It's pretty clear in the PDF. An AC2 can only be damaged by CC Attacks with CC Weapons possessing the Anti-materiel Trait, or with D-Charges. It says D-Charges. Is the issue some think D-Charges need to be used as a CC weapon instead of just planted?
The issue is that the AC2's defence system says it causes a face to face against attacks, but the rules are disjointed in what is communicated and what mechanically happens. Basically, why nerf the shit out of all methods of harming an AC2, except they let the absolutely strongest and easiest option to destroy them remain untouched? Three options: 1. (As currently written) Since D-Charges don't cause a roll, there is no face to face and the defence system doesn't do anything against D-Charges. 2. (Also, kinda, as written) Since D-Charges don't cause a roll, there is no face to face, but in other places when the rules write "face to face" it doesn't require the opponent to oppose the face to face - hence the defence system will do a normal roll at fixed 8 if you try to plant a D-Charge on the AC2. 3. (As indicated) Defence system is meant to force a face to face against all attacks, Plant Deployable is an attack that can't roll higher than 8 and will lose. 3. (Alternative reading) "or with D-Charges" was accidentally left in the document.
