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Does delaying ARO break Hidden Deployment?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Lawson, Oct 10, 2021.

  1. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

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    I feel like the answer is yes (referenced some other threads where it looks like it's assumed), but it's worded kind-of weirdly in the rules. "Delay" doesn't seem to be a skill declaration or ARO declaration in and of itself.

    Here's the rules for cancellation:

    Screen Shot 2021-10-09 at 4.54.18 PM.png

    Per the second bullet point: as far as I can tell, delaying ARO doesn't count as declaring ARO. So an HD trooper that spots a Camo trooper and delays their ARO has neither declared a skill nor ARO.

    However, the third bullet point sort-of indirectly suggests that delaying ARO breaks HD by including the fact that you can retain camouflage if you delayed ARO... which would only be pertinent if delaying broke HD.

    I'm doing a search through the rules for every instance of the word "delay" but I can't figure out where the actual rule exists that delaying breaks HD, unless the above is all we get. At least for 'preventing a trooper from entering the marker state' it's clearly stated in the rules (albeit only explicitly in a Sibylla Explains box). I don't understand why the books seem to insist on sidebarring important rules in what look like "reminders" when they only exist there and not in the list of requirements like they should.
     
    #1 Lawson, Oct 10, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2021
    Mogra likes this.
  2. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    No declaration...
     
  3. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

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    If you want to delay your ARO with an HD model, you have to place the marker on the table.
     
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  4. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    I believe it remains the same if you wanted to deny a model to re-camo/re-impersonate. You have to put the marker out to show where you are watching from.
     
  5. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    The bullet points are poorly organized, trying too hard to fit every single rule into state effects and cancellations. But what you need to do is go back and have a look at how they're organized:
    - You first have the bullet point that says that when Hidden Deployment is canceled, you place the trooper's model or marker on the table.
    - Next you have the bullet point that says that if the trooper can be deployed in a marker state, the following categories of actions won't cause the marker state to be canceled upon deployment.
    a. a bunch of skills
    b. delaying ARO
    c. preventing one of the 'no enemy can be able to draw LoF to you' activities
    - Then you have the bullet point stating that doing anything else causes the marker state to be canceled, so you place the trooper's model.

    The question you really need to be asking is "How exactly am I supposed to 'delay' my ARO?" In order to do that, you need to indicate a trooper on the table, and you can't do that without the trooper being on the table as either a model or a marker.
     
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  6. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

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    Can you delay an ARO without getting an ARO (after faq 1.1.1)?
     
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I think relevant to the answer to the OP is also to keep in mind the basic rules which are that a miniature basically has no LoF or ZoC until it is on the table. Yes, this makes actually AROing with a HD trooper a bit of a paradox, but it's something we can solve.

    Logically, it's impossible to delay an ARO if you don't have an ARO.

    It's a technicality, but this hasn't changed with 1.1.1, what changed were the criteria for getting an ARO. Previously you got an ARO at all activations because you didn't know the active trooper's Zone of Control, now you no longer get this ARO because Zone of Control and Line of Fire can be known trivially.
     
    Lawson likes this.
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