I don't know if this is better suited for the fanfic forum, but I've been building 40k factions in Infinity rules as a lockdown project. The aim is to represent these armies as best as possible within the existing infinity rules and abilities, and trying to strike a balance between playability and fluff. Currently I have Orks and Eldar, with Dark Eldar, Necrons and Chaos in the works. Would love any feedback on these factions before I do any further work - do they look playable, do the costs look right, do they represent the units in a satisfactory manner? Hopefully there is still enough interest / enough people actually on the forum to give some constructive input on this! One thing I'm really quite interested in is what a Space Marine would be best represented by. I've built one using the Hospitaller Knight as a base and another using the Sogarat. I think the Sogarat is more accurate but then your army is like four 70pt Space Marines and thats it... Spoiler
*Cracks Knuckles* I was thinking the second is closest to what I'd do, if leaning towards the Movie Marine identity, but is the 2 points of armor increase really 20 points? (Did you forget to remove the cost of the +1 damage skills from the Sogarat profile?) That makes me inclined for the first profile instead, as you'd otherwise only have 5 models in a 300 pt list. (and would definitely need to add TA & #2 to the second profile) Tactical awareness on all marines to make up for the small faction numbers is something both CB did in IA and GW did in the new Killteam. More gnerally, I might make a few changes to the options available. Skills: Lose Duo, as the basic tactical marine operates in squads, but has some inflexibility. Lose NWI, their toughness is already represented by the two wounds, NWI should be more for the heroes/villains able pushing through a "killing blow". Plus an apothecary getting space marines back up is a more iconic image, so should be encouraged. Change Religious Troop to Courage, they're trained tactically to know when to withdraw or not, while Religious Troop would better represent the more traditionally stubborn or fearless (sub)factions, like Dark Angels or Death Company. I'd give the Lt option NCO so he can use his order on his squad, and maybe give both those profiles a DAccw to represent a chainsword. Maybe change the paramedic to a generic "specialist operative", so the squad can do objectives but need a apothecary to actually pick each other up. Equipment: I'd change the HFT to a light flamethrower, and drop the Feuerbach, to better match the actual weapons available to a Tactical squad.
I don't have access to the points formula, only an approximation. And wounds and ARM are the hardest thing to figure out. So I use what I have and base it off of an existing profile. Far from perfect lol I'm inclined towards the first profile because if you take a Sogarat and give its stuff, it will crack 70 points pretty easily. I use a continuous CCW for a chainsword. The issue with CC and marines in general is the damn pistol rules, so now they all have a DA (DAM 11) CCW and the upgrade isn't really worth the points on a profile I'm trying to make cheaper. I figured NWI was necessary to represent them, I definitely prefer the profile without it. Courage makes sense. This is sort of the generic template space marines not any given chapter in particular. LT NCO makes sense. Specialist makes sense but one thing that is not ironed out in my army lists is specialists (alongside lieutenants) Why a light flamethrower? I've opted for heavy because of the template design philosophy I'm using. They kind of dump on CC in a CC heavy setting and so are quite rare, and in 40k are treated as primary weapons, so I'm inclined to take the heavy as its closer to a main weapon. The Feubach will go, its a hold over from when I was building this profile alongside devastators and represents a lascannon. Cheers for the input sadly haven't got much even though I think the project would be really cool (and especially, really cheap to play)
Yeah, It just feels like the points for the +1 dam skills weren't subtracted when you were converting them over. According to the Grunt SpecOp, going from Arm 4 to 6 is 5points, and the gap between the profiles is greater than that. I guess for the flamethrower, I'm thinking that there is an actual heavy flamethrower that you have to represent somehow, for salamanders and bloodangels, so keeping the distinction is good. If you want to up the effects of it, maybe +1 burst on the regular flamethrower or something?
This is certainly an interesting project. Now I'm wondering what the Death Guard would be like (NWI seems like a trait for them). Also, the Sisters (Religious Troops, quite probably).
Are XP values on spec ops an accurate guide to points? First I've heard of this but point formula information is hard to come by. The specific formula I used to create these profiles is as follows; Costs are derived from what I could find in ARMY, some guesses plus a guide someone had made that was incomplete and for N3. Not perfect just what I have to work with. Would think more along the lines of extra damage or bonus burst on the upgraded flamer, with Heavy Flamethrower being the baseline. Ha I'm not the only one then. I've always found stuff like this interesting and I've found myself with a ton of time on my hands due to lockdown so it's a great mind occupier.
Considering how wonky GW has been doing rules, I'm all for shifting 40k factions into Infinity. Skirmish/Killteam size forces combined with CB's rules could give our models a second life. Better than sitting around and doing nothing.
I've played a few games of an older infinity/40k ruleset and honestly it feels like a really suitable scale for 40k. The tricky thing I've found is the Infinity vs 40k balance regarding CC and smoke. Warhammer is more about squads punching each other, but thats honestly impossible under standard infinity rules. Infinity uses smoke extensively, especially for CC orientated units, but in 40k you never see Hormagaunts or Ork Boyz advancing under smoke instead they just run right into the guns.
I think based on Sogarat makes sense. I think there should be an option with EXP CCW (Power Sword/Fist), maybe AP. In general: I think there's a bit of a problem with 40K to infinity because they have so many CC oriented troops.
I bashed together some Spess Mehrens rules in N3 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wIkvZjuL0a7x9vrud7Hm3Arh0EKPQmjH8UfU4qSn59w/edit?usp=sharing mostly cos I also made some Intercessors into Infinity-scale marines for giggles. They weren't exactly balanced, and I basically did the points costs more as a "viable way to have an army of about five marines" approach. But maybe they can help a little? I also think I have half-finished ideas for other factions floating about, like Tau.
Tau & Genestealer Cults sound like interesting additions to this 40k into Infinity project. I think they could fit in well. Tau with Drones that act similar to palbots/tinbots or other attached units sounds like fun. And I thought that Corregidor would be a good foil for Genestealer Cults. Maybe use PanO as a base for Tau models with the high BS and lower PH, WP & CC.
Here's a shot at a Tau Drone from what I remember of them many years ago. They hover and have two guns don't they? Light Tau Drone M 6-4, CC9, BS11, PH 10, WIP13, ARM0, STR1, S1, AVA2 Regular Hackable Skills: Burst (+1), Climbing Plus, Courage, Remote Presence, Super Jump, Terrain (Total) Rifle Boarding Shotgun Contender Medium Tau Drone M 6-4, CC9, BS11, PH 10, WIP13, ARM1, STR1, S1, AVA2 Regular Hackable Skills: Burst (+1), Climbing Plus, Courage, Remote Presence, Super Jump, Terrain (Total) Marksman Rifle Mk12 Spitfire Heavy Tau Drone M 6-2, CC9, BS11, PH 10, WIP13, ARM1, STR1, S2, AVA2 Regular Hackable Skills: Burst (+1), Climbing Plus, Courage, Remote Presence, Terrain (Total) HMG Missile Launcher Plasma Carbine Scout Tau Drone M 6-4, CC9, BS11, PH 10, WIP13, ARM0, STR1, S1, AVA2 Regular Hackable Equipment: Sensor, Biovisor Skills: Climbing Plus, Courage, Remote Presence, Super Jump, Terrain (Total)
One problem with hover units is that Does not translate well into Best answer I've had so far is to make most of the hover units S5 or S6 because they are so damn tall Problem with the Sogarat is you are making a faction based around a troop that starts at 60 points and only goes up the closer you get to fluffmarines, that can't really run anything cheap. I gave mine two Servo Skull netrod type things but after that you are getting at best bad scouts that are still high teens low 20s for orders The CC thing is somewhat of an issue when it comes to large CC brawls. Link teams in CC doesn't remotely work nor can swarms overwhelm a gunline without moving simultaneously.
I can see what you mean about the size. I was trying to think of what would be used for Howling Banshees and Striking Scorpions. Howling Banshee's could be based on Umbra Legates but with Flash Puse (+1 B). SS could be like Daturazi with Chest Mines.
I think the best method is to not expect people to rebase or alter their models - one aim of a 40k/infinity mash up is to get 40k people playing some Infinity and they are not going to do it if that was a requirement! It's more a problem of trying to match the silhouettes. Like Jetbikers and stuff are pretty fucking enormous by infinity standards.
I think for drones and jetbikes the simple solutions are that on their own they're S2/24 but have mimetism or dodge bonuses. A perfect 1-1 translation will be nigh impossible with some units
How do these look? Really didn't like needing a special clause for jumping but preferred that to hoverbikes going prone.
