New rule suggestion

No

 

Sure, an active turn MOV on dodge is not enough. And a Face-to-Face roll followed by another Face-to-Face roll vs one ARO will totally not break things any further. Glass cannons need a buff, especially on a 2W models and such. Instead of fixing current problems or inventing new tactics - LETS JUST MAKE NEW SKILLS!

Did you think about it for more than one second? How is that supposeed to work? Is it one roll or two rolls vs one ARO? How a FtF win + FtF lose against one ARO would work?

Oh, I see it now

 

Come on :D

 

And it can stop here ok?

 

My suggestion to anyone making or suggesting new rules is: Playtest it. Get with a friend and see what actually happens. As we all know, things that seem like a good idea on paper or in our head almost never work in practice. After you see how it actually works, then you can make your arguments with data to back it up.

 

I don't love the idea honestly. But boy is it a far sight better than the other shit posts ITT.

 

I'm not insinuating that it is. I don't like your idea, but I don't see anything wrong with posting it up. I think we should stick to the regular F2F unless with have a really good reason not to - and templates, while a little annoying in how common they are, are not good enough of a reason to distort the core rule mechanics like this.

It's the next three posts I take issue with. How the fuck is "No." an appropriate response? The one under that whose response is that "it hasn't been thought about for more than a second". Or the spiel of sycophantic and dogpiling drivel that proceeds that.

If this is where the forums are at, I agree with the people that say close it all down.

 

I think I get what you are trying to say. I actually like the idea. But it would need testing to see how it works out.

As you said we already have Move+Move+CC with Berserk. There could be other skills that are similar. Move+Move+Dodge, Move+Move+Shoot. Like Berserk, they need LoF and valid target.

The MMD might need to not include the bonus inches some troops get. And MMS could done with a minus to shooting or only certain weapons could be used. etc.

 

I reckon be very careful about adding complexity without a corresponding addition of depth to the game. Adding a single ability that allows you to F2F using two different stats simultaneously is more complexity and does not add enough to justify its inclusion IMO.

Re; Berserk and Chain, the Move+Move+Attack is actually just "long" Move + attack and doesn't really change anything. The Normal roll does deviate from the F2F roll but not in a complicated way. Direct Templates are not complicated to apply and are rather common ability - the minor increase in complexity is offset by its application in a large number of weapons.

Re; "Move+move+shoot" etc I have no problem with those, just the ones that modify the face to face roll at a fundamental level without sufficient cause.

If you want to run some sort of matrix bullet dodge as shown above, I'd suggest sticking to one stat/one roll. Something like, making a simultaneous attack and dodge using the lowest stat of BS and PH. But even that has the unique element of 'choose a stat' but at least it keeps to the basics of the F2F.

This all reminds me of when I was talking about templates with a PanO player and he was annoyed that he could not shoot his way out of that problem. And then I had the same discussion with another PanO player about smoke. I didn't agree with them and I don't agree with you that something like this is needed.

 

I reckon there is space in the game for a dodge that is based around survival and not movement, allowing for a move+move+oppose F2F. As for the MMS it should be pistols only to really grab that matrix vibe. Call it bullet time and I'm all for it.

 

I assume you want to make what's essentially a CC Attack that also has a Face to Face versus other attackers? I don't think the idea of having units that can both CC Attack and Dodge the target's template is a good idea simply for the fact that templates are (or were, I guess) intended to put a check and balance on assassin units attacking high value targets - no you may not simply run Shinobu up to the Jotums without getting flamed, put some effort into it!

I can see the value in having something that can face to face other attackers, if discussing BS Attacks that require a roll, I guess, but I don't like the separate rolls part and certainly wouldn't want it to be using the CC value.

All in all, I think it's an interesting idea, but even on the face of it it sounds like a more complicated solution to a problem than necessary, in particular when there's only a rare few melee units that actually need some form of buff in this direction. I can think of like... four. Shikami who is close to good already, Kanren who just needs Holoecho to start performing, Taowu who is just weirdly expensive, and Military Orders who don't deserve it -.-;;
(That's a joke, by the way.)

P.S. Maybe if the attack is made using the Dodge roll (so no massively huge attack values), and predicated on the Dodge' movement actually reaching the target.

@Space Ranger I don't think that scene from the Matrix is an unfair representation of ODD, tbh.

 

I'm thinking, like Berserk, it's more like a suicide run. Making it normal rolls for you and whatever is shooting at them. You may get some hits but you are probably going to die doing it.

 

A big reason Berserk was created and is okay as a skill that tinkers with traditional action economy is that it shores up the age old issue with CC-focused units: getting into CC.

Once you start looking at providing the same benefit to other options that don't necessarily have the same drawbacks (ie. BS attacks), I believe we get into risky territory.

That said I can see an argument being made for CC units to have a skill that allows them to use their CC abilities to avoid attacks with an anime-esque whirlwind of blades. It also helps get CC units with low PH into melee range without relying on mimetism, marker state, and/or infiltration.
Obviously a straight CC role vs a BS attack wouldn't work but CC Dodge (-6) would be a unique skill on a select few models.

As I write this, however, I realise the N4 rationalisation of skills has pretty much given us it with Dodge (+X).

 

An easier solution to allowing CC models to gt into melee would be to give them Dodge (+1B) on those specific models that need it, give them a higher chance to succeed at a Dodge against enemy AROs.