Quite a few HI weight units have already leapfrogged the threshold that would make a linked Hsien HMG OP. Tunguska have linked Kriza Boracs rolling 6 hmg dice with Mimetism +3 AND a Vostok Sputnik rolling 4 mk12 dice with marksmanship and ODD. That's in Nomads, who are also supposed to be a "dirty tricks / generalist" faction rather than a top tier shooting faction. This level of shooting isn't that game breaking, once you've killed a couple of ARO pieces you've probably got everything you're going to get out of that model, so investing huge amounts of points in the core link may even be a trap.
It might have been surpassed, but I don't think either the Kriza or Vostok are remotely healthy for the state of the game, and trying to keep up with the Nomads arms race is not the direction I'd like to see the game go in. Practically, you're absolutely right, but ideologically, I'd rather not feed the power creep beyond what I'd consider reasonable.
It wouldn't even really be hurting anything at this point, anything to give the Yan Huo a reason to exist in N4. Although I do despise the notion of rolling more than 5 dice in Infinity, and would appreciate just about any better thought out solution to the Yan Huo's problems.
Kriza is kind of eye-raising for violating the unspoken contract of breaching the burst limit, but other than that... man they got hit by the nerf sledge in the crotch. They used to be great as solo pieces even in sectorials, but now they're so expensive for the performance profile. Same issue as with Taowu, and to a lesser degree Sforza, in my opinion; there's very few believable places for them to hide because they can't get into the Fireteams you'll be using and ISS is pretty damned heavy on maximizing Fireteams. If Pheasants were a source for Dakini Haris, or if they could get into Wu Ming or Celestial Guard Fireteams, then Holomask would be believable for them. Ditto Taowu. Doctors and Engineers makes pretty bad hiding targets as well, but the Sophotect being alone and speedy makes them even worse to mimic. That said, I'm kind of liking the idea of having plenty of Holomasks on key command and control units as this kind of faction-spanning ability is poorly explored and Yu Jing consistently never showing the true face of the units they use can be an intriguing ability to explore where other factions typically get mimetism. It just needs to be supported by having believable targets and equipment that is worth hiding.
Well, YJ is tied with Haq for having the most holo units, so it definitely fits as an . I don't dislike the idea, but I definitely agree that they need to do a better job of actual application. Across YJ and ISS, I've never felt like the holo units available ever had an appropriate model to disguise as that wasn't either painfully obvious or compromising the abilities of the (not exactly cheap) holo trooper.
What the Yan Huo would *really* like is sixth sense. That would solve its problems much better than getting a sixth dice.
I mean personally I would like them to put a rule in the game that hard-caps Burst at 5, then give the Kriza "BS Attack (-3)" instead of Mimetism to better represent its N3 rules and flavor. ... but anyways this thread is about ISS, not Tunguska. At a bare minimum they need to un-N3 the fireteam limitations. There's so many extra rules about who can link with who that it makes you crosseyed trying to figured it out. I also think they need to do a sweeping pass over the Agent units, because there's a lot of units that are terribly bloated with rules that drive their points cost through the roof. Like, for example, the Bao Sniper. BS 12, MSV2, Multi-sniper, 29 points. Compare to the 27 point Brawler or the 24 point Taagma, which have the same shooting stats but are cheaper. But at least he's better at declaring Discover?
TBF Bao have WIP14 with +3Disc, Courage, and [sarcasm_on]that biometric visor you use every single game. [\sarcasm_off]
The problem with biometric visor itself is that even in the cases where it's intended to be useful, it's still garbage at the one specialized task it's meant for because you still have to spend two orders/AROs to actually discover the thing.
It's mainly good for ignore surprise attack Holo and Impersonation characters. Of which they are rarely the target of.
It's so rare and niche a function that I didn't even know that was a thing. Also, as noted above, Yu Jing being the faction with the most holoprojectors means we should be the one people want to bring that functionality against (not that that's worth doing either), not the other way around.
yeah sure! paying 5p for peripheral kuangshis will get rid of the overprice premium cost pheasants & cranes and the fact that yujing troops trend to be more expensive (elite/polivalent) than other faction troops. I don't quite like it but kuangshis are there for a reason. Of ourse, take care of the only smoke provider in a sectorial that works mainly around combi, spitfire and CC things will get easier for sure The only problem I see on the Celestials is their cost. New LIs are way crazyer for the same or less cost. see the securitates, the cheerkillers or the kappas. Regarding the doctor profile, I don't think it fits very well into a policeman context... how many doctor policemans do you know? But I think more paramedics into agent profiles could definitely be of some use. I don't quite understand what people see on this guys... I can only see some atractive on the hacker and the madtraps one. and even there there is not much fun arround it. I would love to see zhanying hakers being expert hackers in marking criminals with spotlight to hunt them down, or being experts using carbonite, or even with the white noise program upgrade. If I see any Yujing hacker with a HD+ this are the guys... even with WP 13 I think It could end up being handy why him and not sfortza? or miranda? or the CSUs? or even the bounty hunters? so much wasted potential on all of them inside this setorial It would fit, but I doubt CB would ever give us a frenzy/impetuous HI. they would be even cheaper or more loaded on stuff and that cant happen in yujing why would a hyper elite troop rank agent, the top of the food chain, just derectly below the emperor would ever be joining with gangsters and criminals? and of course damage 13 will not always cut it, that's why AP ammo and BS14 are there. I would love to se cranes move 6-2 and dodging on 16s. It would be pretty usefull for a lot of reasons (getting into CC, getting into BS range, avoiding mines, getting LoF with hackers without triggering their ARO... squeezing movement...) but I don't see it comming. the rest of the suggested changes doesn't make much sense. They're like the righteous paladins of the emperor... smoke, viral breaker or being a hacking nerd that get's outside the box it's not the thing that comes into my mind when I think in them. they want to be flashy and shiny leading the troops of justice BS12 and climbing plus on the kunai it's just enough. I'll take out any kind of martial arts if it would be neccessary and play CC just with raw CC atribute if really needed I confess I miss some smoke on my ninjas, but more importantly, I would love to see ninjas with PH 13+ dodging direct templates and getting into CC, having a nice CC damage for once and being easier to fi with a paramedic. take out that CC damage: shock. I don't want it. So, you'll take out their main thing, their MSV2 to make a yujing wildcat.... with lots of madtraps? And trying to make the pheasant the BS attak piece? I kind of think on the other direction. the baos should shoot and the pheasant would provide adhesive, EM, stun, and hacking I usually find the 3 main problems of the baos to be: their squishiness (medium BS atribute (12), PH10, ARM1, not shock inmune), their lack of specialists and their lack of B4/mid-range weaponry. they've tried to fix their problem taking a Redfury pheasant on the mix, but sincerely, I don't what to use My CC expert/chain of command on mid-long range shootings. I would prefer to use the baos for the bullet exchange and hold the pheasant for CC, hacking, pushing buttons or dropping madtraps. Biometric visors are utterly useless and unecesary, specially with WP14 and +3 to discover. and the same can be said for their BTS6 with no access to hacking devices and without being hackable. Inm: shock and ARM 2-3 would be enough but even better with BS13. On the other hand, what pheasants need is to go a step further into their good tings (CC, Non Lethal, Hacking and pushing buttons) I've always thought that a policial force like ISS would need hacking experts on par with other factions. and pheasants, as natural solo pieces with CoC are perfect for the task. the killer hacker is relatively useful as it is now and the regular hacker is a decent one. they only lack pitchers in both hacker profiles and they will be a choice even in vanilla. and Regarding CC, they desperately need a dodge+3 to get into melee and avoid template menaces. Get rid of the holoprojetor... It's just a crappy mechanic wit barely any use. Holomask has some weird mechanics with hacking and hackable, so get rid of it too. give them all mimetism and cybermask instead, even on non hacker profiles. extend the quantity of madtrap profiles and add deployable repeaters to the shock mines profile. And regarding suntze... Give Suntze V2 maksman, a multi maksman rifle profile option, give him back his WIP 17 flash pulse, take out "BS: Attack shock", and give him "BS attack: Marked" so he can support his team and give orders while flashing on 20s during reactive or with shoots that doesn't pass the enemy's armor. regarding the V1, the heavy armor one, BS13 and movement 6-2 is all that I ask for. but giving him an MK12 or something of more range than a multi would be lovely.
I would like a killer hacker version of the Crane, I think it suits its fluff. Taowu being able to link would be great. I love the model but will probably use him as a HVT for now
Thinking on it, I do like the Kuang Shi as peripherals for agents idea. It won't be useful in fireteams, but it would get around the 15 model cap and give ISS back some deployment zone corner guards to increase model count and make dealing a crippling blow to the DZ a bit harder. Also, peripherals are great for attacking with, and running a crane or hsien with peripheral kuang shi in Vanilla would be really useful. Another different direction the Kuang Shi could move in would be as a peripheral fireteam of 3-4 models, like camo free antipodes. They're already almost set up that way in army builder. Remove fireteam links and add tac-awareness and peripheral rule, and ideally some kind of triggerable explosion rule... and they'd get a lot of flavor. They could be even cheaper, as they'd only bring 2 regular orders to the list instead of 5.
As much as I want peripheral Kuang Shi to be a thing, I want it to be kept out of vanilla. Vanilla YJ is already very strong as things are, and sectorials need to be more unique in their identity from vanilla, especially ISS. Peripheral Kuang Shi would be a good method of adding identity and potency to the sectorial.
This would depend if the existing Kuang Shi unit stayed, or if it was completely removed and replaced with the new Kuang Shi peripherals. Certainly, if you were taking Kuang Shi away as a standalone unit in vanilla you'd want to put some new profiles in as a replacement. Removing five-point regular orders and one of the core warbands would be a big nerf without putting something else in. You could still reserve some AVA and profiles for ISS: maybe Crane + 1 Kuang Shi in vanilla, Crane + 2 Kuang Shi in ISS.
Yeah I'm not sure on kuang shi. I'm not sure it's a great look tbh. I know there are some very dark cyberpunk elements in this game's fluff but these guys take the otherwise hidden fluff and bring it onto the tabletop. From a force PoV I don't like a full core team with impetuous discounts just sat about doing nothing and providing orders to the battlecat. It makes everything one dimensional. I'd be happy if o12 looked into the matter, prohibited it and forced an ISS rebalance to make c guard, zhanying etc better options for teams
Pushing Kuang Shi a bit more into the obscure would work fine with them being turned into ISS specific peripherals. "Officially" Hsien and Cranes wouldn't carry any of them around, but for more delicate missions those high level agents can bring one or two as cannon fodder/terror units.
I'm not keen on the idea of Kuang Shi either. Not just because it's bad overt evil like a Ming the Merciless stereotype. It just makes no sense! You just had a civil war due to things like Kuang Shi. You think it's a good idea to keep on going with it? What kind of things would their allies and the O-12 do when they find you are using prisoners (of any sort) as human bombs? Yu Jing would go from #2 power to #6 overnight! O-12 Uber house slaps sanctions so hard on them the next generation is born dizzy. True, personally I hate the stereotype that they seem to have with Yu Jing but I'm also coming at it from a logical POV. I hate bringing up real life but what would happen if a world power did that same thing? A world power. Not criminals, terrorists, or extremists.
