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How would you fix [x]? Week 10: Al Fasid

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Knauf, Feb 4, 2021.

  1. AssaultUnicorn

    AssaultUnicorn KTS is the best unit

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    My suggestion is to give him a third loadout with Spitfire and Light Shotgun. Fasid's kit kinda implies going to the midfield with all his mines and immunity to Oblivion, so it would make sense for him to have something for 8-24" range bands. I would also give that kit some Grenades and have Fasid throw them on his PH 14. If we can't have a good grenade launcher we can still have good ol' nades.
     
  2. M0rk4

    M0rk4 Member

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    I think Al'Fassids profiles suffer from different problems.


    The HRL version is a decent ground holder being able to aro with a long range template or a suppressive fire. In this mission his ability to lay mines helps him. His liabilities are his cost, CC and the competition in haqq.

    I would fix him by lowering his cost. The extra burst doesn't help him in his reactive turn mission and he also pays a useless heavy pistol. Let's trade those things for point reduction.

    You could also make a unique profile in Haqq by giving him neurocinetics.


    The HMG version imho should be able to be the main activ turn shooter in the list. But with bs 13 and no mods (vms, mim or burst bonus) and a basic mobility he is just an average shooter at 53 pts.

    I like the fact that he carries a grenade launcher package. That loadout makes him special in comparison with other S5 HI with hmg.

    I would fix him by giving him some mods but I do not have any preferences. Mim would benefits both profils, he could carry a VMS1 to use with his smoke or he could be B+1. As a toolbox being able to specfire he could also benefits from NCO.


    Of course this is mostly valid in vanilla. In sectorials allow them to join haris teams !
     
  3. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    I'm way to late to the party, but I would give him NWI. Haqqislam is the med tech faction and NWI would imo fit witj that
     
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  4. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    I like the Al'Fasid. Compared to the other "How do you fix..." it doesn't really need one.

    If I was to make suggestions to make him better, I'd say he would benefit from BS 14 as a BS 13 HMG is no longer a high tier sweeper. Maybe he could lose sixth sense or even drop to 4-2 to mitigate the cost.
     
  5. RolandTHTG

    RolandTHTG Still wandering through the Night

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    This has been inert for a little while, So I'd like to revive it with a Aleph unit: Yadu

    While their pseudo HI stats aren't bad, the only trooper I've seen in lists in N4 is the NCO HMG & maybe Shakti. Any other link filler/backup have been superseded by new N4 wildcards. The other options don't seem worth their costs as link filler over a Deva, and the Rudras provides a better gunner for just a few points more.

    My suggestion would actually be for them all to get NCO. It fulfills the Tactical part of their name, and expands the OSS options for getting NCO into a list from just the HMG to the other options. The multi-rifle/FO and Shotgun hacker then become at least situationally useful as leaders for a harris, being a way to spend LT orders on something other than a Asura or Devabot.
     
  6. MattB89

    MattB89 Well-Known Member

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    As a Nomads player, having NCO on multiple models in a link does nothing but inflate the cost of a unit, eg. Reverend Moiras
    A much better solution would be to give a couple of profiles Tactical Awareness instead.
     
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  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I dunno, as an Invincibles player I have to say that a lot of Shang-Ji and Zuyong profiles are just terrible because they lack TacAware... Maybe it's by comparison or maybe it is because they lack the ability that validates them for their points.

    Yadu remains an absolute steal for their points. Only bad thing I can possibly think of is that they are a Zuyong amount of points with a Zuyong high PH and Zuyong amount of ARM concentrated on a small area without the possibility of Firewall which makes them a decent target for Guided spam in a very non-Zuyong way.

    I know they're not very popular, but I still think they're artificially cheap - compared to other units of similar calibre. Well... compared to Zuyong who have basically the same stats, but in line with Invaders who are just something else. Still might be suffering a tiny bit from the elitefluenza that plagues the game where having improvements of the wrong type has a negative effect on your points and therefore efficiency. It's less strong on multi-wonders because multiple chances synergize well with other abilities.
     
  8. SpectralOwl

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    I always thought Yadu were excellent, let down only by sharing a Sectorial with one of N3's best Fireteam gunner options in the Dakini as well as the stupidly efficient Posthumans for durable Specialist work. They'd still be my pick playing into some of the less-balanced Hacking factions. The only things wrong with them is lack of cheap filler for full-size links, and relative shortage of firepower due to rampant power creep elsewhere.
     
  9. RolandTHTG

    RolandTHTG Still wandering through the Night

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    That's fair, and Tac Aware would be another good add. My thoughts were actually about making them be a competitive selection as button pushers or the third Harris member compared to Devas. Compared to the FO Yadu, the FO Deva is 11 pts cheeper, one less BS and armor but one better WIP. Trisha, at 2 pts over the Deva, is an engineer and brings a breaker combi and dcharges. There's enough 20ish point wildcards to be link fillers, so my question is why should I pay 30ish for a Yadu. The Yadu have enough tricks on the non-swc models I can see spending a nco order to throw drop bears or something, but otherwise they don't have sufficient advantage over the other possible fillers in my opinion.

    They're decent, but with all the options in oss, I always find them at the top of my trim list when making an army list. That's where I'm looking for something to be their niche or special skill in oss, to make me take them as the link basis over dakini or Devas. NCO or Tac Aware fulfill that little bit of flexibility and tricks I think they need.
     
  10. dhellfox

    dhellfox The keeper of the Forgotten

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    i really wish they bring back the (cheaper) combi FO loadout but other than that i don't see anything bad/wrong about them other than being in the faction with so many competitive choices both in unit or fireteam option.
     
  11. AssaultUnicorn

    AssaultUnicorn KTS is the best unit

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    How would you fix the Kunai Solutions Ninja? I'd say downgrade his CC down to 21 (or even 19) and leave only Martial Arts L1 (or just remove it outright). In exchange, grant him BS 12 in addition to some sort of BS-related special rule to make them actually live up to their marksman name. +1 Damage is the most obvious choice, although you could try and spice it up by granting him +1B on his MULTI Sniper rifle to make him just a little bit more effective as an active-turn sniper. The way he is right now, Kunai is a bad Noctifer more than anything else. Maybe an X-Visor to boot? The Shock Marksman Rifle profile is a bit more viable since the mid-range weapon gels well with Climbing Plus, so it's mostly the MULTI Sniper Profile that I'm absolutely dumbfounded about.
     
  12. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    He can live by the name by having the Marksmanship skill! BS12 I agree on the background even said they worked on shooting more than CC. Some variety of profiles would be good too. Like one with MSV1, one with X-Visor, one with 360 visor, etc.

    Right now the only troop that has Surprise -6 is the Ayyar. I'd like to see a few more with that.
     
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  13. AssaultUnicorn

    AssaultUnicorn KTS is the best unit

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    Marksmanship+SMR+X-visor would be a dream come true. Shooting at least on 12s up to 40" is a wet dream come true. Plus, this would not make the Kunai OP since any DT hobo would still be able to remove him.
    Agreed, would be cool to have that skill stack with Mimetism, making it a -12 for anything without sixth sense and visors. I'd say that this would have to be balanced out by handing it out only to the SMR profile since it's only Damage 13 without any AP or DA ammo. Then again, the MSR profile only gets to shoot two times on 15s, so in that case, the benefit is sort of balanced out by low burst.
     
  14. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    Could make it MA1 or none and +1 B on each of his ranged weapons. So in CC he can use his pistol effectively while at the same time a better shooter. This will keep the cost down and maybe they could get a better pistol.

    They need to do something about the Ninja sniper too.
     
  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Um... consider the factions they're in and the roles they fill that those factions do not already fill. Kunai are not snipers and the factions don't need more snipers - but they do need something that can run up to other snipers in their ivory towers and stab them in the face.
     
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  16. SpectralOwl

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    Sval is not short on shooters at all- though frankly it's not quite in dire need of CC either given the Character parade. ISS and WB also boast some fairly effective options in CC and even sniping- though neither is great at it. Might be fun to play into the "assassin" schtick a bit more with Hidden Deployment and Limited Camo plus an exotic BS Attack adjustment like Breaker- really guarantee a single kill against anything short of Achilles in exchange for long-term usefulness. Yu Jing in particular would benefit from access to a true assassin again, given their reliance on Hackables.
     
  17. AssaultUnicorn

    AssaultUnicorn KTS is the best unit

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    And the Kunai are meant to fill this role how, exactly? Only one of the two options has any kind of forward deployment and even then it's not enough for me to consider Kunai as an anti-sniper CC unit. Had he had Infiltration by default - sure, I would have bought that. The way he is right now, with his current deployment skills, he is neither a great "stab snipers in the face" unit nor a good sniper/gunfighter. You either spend lots of orders maneuvering around the midfield in an attempt to climb up and take down the sniper or you shoot stuff on 14s if you're lucky. Trying to emphasize the CC skills of that unit just makes the competition against regular Ninjas tougher, with the primary tradeoff being "you can climb but you do not have Infiltration" and, once again, I see this as a waste of orders. That's why I'd rather see it as a gunfighter instead.
     
  18. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    If you need a hammer but all you have is a rock, would you rather punch the nail with your fist?

    I'm not saying the Kunai is good, I'm saying the Kunai are not improved by making it decent at shooting because that just makes the Kunai even more redundant.

    To make it decent at doing a job that actually needs doing in these factions is simple; increase forward deployment to +8" or Infiltration on both profiles (preferably the prior because the unit is costly enough already and to not make it blatantly an improved Ninja). If you want to keep the pretence up regarding shooting, increase BS to 12, but nothing costlier than that.
     
  19. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    With the release of the Triphammer, do we think the solution of just adding the additional Structure to the Anaconda and Iguana is still viable?
     
  20. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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