Can I use Deactivator against a dismounted motorcycle since it is equipment and deployed on the table? Or an AI Motorcycle for that matter I just realized...
Yes for Motorcycle and no for AI Motorcycle, arguments as follows; As far as I can tell, there is no way a motorcycle that has been dismounted is not a piece of deployed equipment, as that is essentially the definition of a non-state Token. An AI Motorcycle, however, is a Peripheral when it is dismounted, which means that it can not be a deployed equipment as it can declare and execute orders and as a Peripheral is a Trooper (and you know... the rules never say we should treat it as a Token or Equipment, unlike with regular motorcycles) Rules reference pages: https://infinitythewiki.com/AI_Motorcycle https://infinitythewiki.com/Motorcycle https://infinitythewiki.com/Terminology
That would be hilarious :-) I'm not sure if the Motorcycle Token is "equipment deployed on the game table." Equipment is defined as "Like Skills, Equipment allows a Trooper to perform unique actions or gain exclusive benefits." So by default, equipment is part of a trooper's profile, not an independent game element. The Deployable Trait says "This weapon or piece of Equipment may be deployed on the battlefield, thus becoming an element independent of its carrier. Deployable weapons and pieces of Equipment have their own profiles and their own Attributes, and they may be chosen as a target during the game." Motorcycle doesn't have the Deployable Trait. Dazer and Deployable Repeater do. Motorcycle says that when the trooper dismounts, you place a Motorcycle Token on the table, but it doesn't say that the token is a piece of equipment. Three possible interpretations: 1. There isn't any rule that says the Motorcycle Token is Equipment. So it's just a token, and can't be targeted with Deactivator. The Motorcycle equipment itself is part of the trooper's profile, not an "element independent of its carrier" since it doesn't have the Deployable trait. The Token isn't the Equipment. 2. The Motorcycle Token is Equipment, but it isn't "deployed on the game table." It's placed on the game table as a result of the Dismount rule. It doesn't have the Deployable trait and can't be deployed either in the deployment phase or using the Place Deployable skill. So it can't be targeted by Deactivator. 3. Although it doesn't have the Deployable Trait, the Motorcycle Token does "have its own profiles and its own Attributes" and can thus, by implication, "be chosen as a target during the game." It's therefore also "an element independent of its carrier." Since the Token meets the description of Equipment with the Deployable Trait in every respect, it should be considered to be "deployed on the game table" even though it doesn't actually have the Deployable Trait. So it can be targeted by Deactivator.
I would agree with with you that this is a logical interpretation :) But to the last part about what the rules say: it is listed under "equipment" on the wiki, even though it never says it should be treated as such.
As the previous reply: both motorcycle and AI motorcycle is listed as "Equipment" on the wiki, I got the idea when I checked what it could be used against by checking the list of equipment :) This is not in opposition to you reply, just a general note that might be relevant :)
AI Motorcycle is Automatic Equipment that allows the Zondnatica to switch between it's two profiles. It is not deployed and represents an inherent ability of the troooper like MSV1 or a (non-Deployable) Repeater. You'll also see the the Zondmate Peripheral does not have the AI Motorcycle equipment
I find that number 1 and number 2 are trying very hard to circumvent rules in order to facilitate a specific interpretation. I would be fairly cautious about adopting rules interpretations based on that as it could have Consequences. As I wrote in my first post, there's only two types of Tokens and the one that can be shot at can also, by definition, be targeted by Deactivator.
Yup, a Motorcycle is definitely Equipment! The question is whether the Motorcycle Token is Equipment. That's the crux of it. Arguably, a regular Motorcycle is also Automatic Equipment that allows a trooper to switch between two profiles. The switch involves placing a Token on the table, but there's nothing that says that the Equipment transfers from the trooper's profile to the Token (unlike Equipment with the Deployable Trait, which explicitly does say that). That said, of the three interpretations I'm leaning towards #3, basically because the Motorcycle Token has a profile with Attributes and can be shot at.
I would read "deploy" strictly. Both mine layer and place Deployable us the word "Deploy" in the name or effect. AI motorcycle and dismount both lack the word Deploy anywhere in the skill or effect. Mines or repeaters are "deployed" and meet the requirements for a deactivate to target equipment "deployed" on the table. Whereas motorcycle tokens are not "Deployed" strickly speaking, they are "placed".
So... when you dismount a bike, the bike instead enters a state where it is undefined as a game element and as such should be removed from the table similar to dice not in use, water pitchers, and curious cats?
Mines and Deployable Repeaters do have a keyword under their name that says 'Deployable', and Motorcycle does not. I also don't think the device for disarming traps and weapons on the battlefield is meant to do the same to vehicles.
This prompted me to look up Game Element, and found some relevant additional rules. This is in the Terminology section: State Token: Game element that indicates the effect of a rule, Skill, or State, as a reminder for the player. Token: Game element that represents a piece of Deployable Equipment or a Deployable Weapon. So in fact the rules differentiate between a State Token and a Token, the latter referring specifically to a deployable. Both are game elements. I think this is pretty strong support for the interpretation that the Motorcycle Token represents a piece of Deployable Equipment and can be Deactivated, for two reasons. First, the object is called a Motorcycle Token, and although its nature isn't defined in the Motorcycle rule, the fact that the rule calls it a Token suggests that it's meant to be a "game element that represents a piece of Deployable Equipment or a Deployable Weapon." The alternative would be that it's a State Token, which isn't out of the question since it does "indicate the effect of a rule," but I think State Tokens are supposed to be tokens placed next to a game element to indicate that element's state - which wouldn't apply to the Motorcycle Token. Second, if the Motorcycle Token were neither a State Token nor a Token, then it would be a unique type of object that doesn't exist anywhere else in the rules, which seems unlikely. Given those reasons as well as the previous reasons in this thread (particularly that the Motorcycle Token has a profile and attributes), it seems like the Motorcycle Token must be a Token, i.e. a game element that represents a piece of Deployable Equipment - even though the Motorcycle doesn't have the Deployable Trait. That was my initial thought as well, but we may be unconsciously still thinking of it as the Minesweeper from N3. It's possible that they renamed it to indicate that it now deactivates a wider variety of equipment rather than just sweeping mines.
Looking even closer on Deactivator, it doesn't require the Equipment to be Deployable, it is sufficient that it is a piece of Equipment that is "deployed" which in all other cases in the rules refer to loosely as "on the game table and in play" P.s. Deactovator was a thing in N3 as well, but that version was specific in only targeting Deployable Weapons. In N4 they've expanded the Deactivator's repertoire significantly
It's understandable a kind of electronic warfare anti-device kit would work on a number of high-tech gadgets, smart mines and so on... but a petrol-guzzling hog motorcycle? I think it's unlikely to be intended to do that. I feel like if it could disable a machine like that, why not a TAG, REM, suit of powered armour, HMG, Karakuri, etc etc. I think it's meant to be a tool that overloads the primitive sensors of autonomous computerised devices, which would include the Perimeter weapons, mines, repeaters.
As much as I really like the idea that you could indeed fry the electronics on a dismounted motorcycle, I believe the answer to your rules question falls under the "Deployable" section of the Traits page. It reads as follows: Deployable This weapon or piece of Equipment may be deployed on the battlefield, thus becoming an element independent of its carrier. Deployable weapons and pieces of Equipment have their own profiles and their own Attributes, and they may be chosen as a target during the game. I believe that deactivator is allowed to target these deployables due to the wording of this rules snippet here, which specifies that they can be chosen as a target. A motorcycle is a game element, and a token, but it is the "deployable" trait that makes specific game elements into valid targets. I also cross-referenced the FAQ and found no mention of Motorcycles in this regard, so it is probably a fairly uncommon question.
Motorcycles are targetable by attacks. https://infinitythewiki.com/Motorcycle When a Trooper on a Motorcycle declares any Skill with the Movement Label and announces he will Dismount, replace the mounted figure with a Motorcycle Token (MOTORCYCLE). Place the Trooper's Model in Silhouette contact with the Motorcycle Token, or measure his movement from the edge of the Token's base, as you prefer. A Motorcycle Token has the following Attributes: https://infinitythewiki.com/Terminology Token Game element that represents a piece of Deployable Equipment or a Deployable Weapon.
Re-examining the Motorcycle page, it does indeed have attributes suggesting that it is a target. There's a lot of clarification that could be done that would help situations like this. Deployable itself is a trait but is also apparently conferred to things automatically. As per the terminology page as well: Deployable Equipment Game element with Attributes, which belongs to the Army List of any of the players, and is capable of performing a Special Skill or Trait. This element may also be designated as a target and receive Attacks. Holy moly working out rules interactions is a slog sometimes. Thanks for the cross-reference, Mahtamori.
