So I've been tinkering with Starmada and trying to get my head around making the sectorial shine. Obviously there's a lot of potential fun with Hector and his options - but I also came up with this idea. Crush Them ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 KAPPA Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) KAPPA Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) KAPPA (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 12) EPSILON MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 33) CRUSHER (Forward Deployment [+8"]) Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (1 | 35) CRUSHER (Forward Deployment [+8"]) Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (1 | 35) CRUSHER (Combat Jump, Parachutist) Boarding Shotgun, Panzerfaust, D-Charges / Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (0 | 36) CASANOVA Submachine Gun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 32) KYTTÄ Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) MILLICENT Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 17) GROUP 2 4 1 1 LAMBDA (Doctor) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16) YUDBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) VARANGIAN Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 12) SHONA CARANO Submachine Gun, Nanopulser(+1B), Flash Pulse / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 27) WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse ( ) / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) FUZZBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army I'm not sure that this idea is improved significantly by being Starmada over Vanilla because you can run something similar with Razors, Gangbusters, Sirius etc. But! You do get a few options here which are fun. Two FD crushers and Casanova is a lot of midfield presence with a third Crusher coming down behind where you need them. Three kappas that could all be the LT (definitely not running them as a linkteam) is a decent shell game. You've still got the classic Epsilon and Varangian combo, but you've also got the Varangian to help escort Shona up the board. And of course, plenty of ways to FO stuff for the Millicent to drop missiles on their heads. I think my next mission is likely to be Supplies and I think this could be an interesting list into that. It feels like it should be able to threaten an early lead turn one if it goes first and the opponent can't deal with all those crushers. If it goes second it also has quite a few ways to push forward and take back what progress the opponent has made. So... Starmada running only a duo link? No Hector? What do people think?
I think this list looks like one that falls kind of flat when faced with a decent MSV unit and a TR Remote. Your attack options rely very heavily on moderately competent forward deploying units and an opponent who can deploy so that their AROs cut the table in two (always cut side-to-side never length-wise) will effectively limit your only response to the Combat Jump Crusher who in turn absolutely hates 360 REMs. I would also contest that you don't have enough reliable ways of putting your opponent's key units in Targeted state to merit running a Millicent. There's also an issue with how the Crushers both eat from the same pool as the Millicent and are fairly important for button pushing.
That's fair. My primary opponent at the moment is Tunguska (and hasn't yet painted his Cheerkillers) so I haven't had to worry much about MSV2. Could move the Millicent and switch with the fuzzbot, and intend to contest any TR Bot with the Episilon/smoke? What options are Starmada going to be looking at for countering MSV in general? Long range shooting obviously isn't their strong suite and I'm not immediately seeing any better options to get up the table than the Crushers?
Oh you should be very worried about MSV snipers, then. Grenzer MSV1 sniper is exceptionally strong MSV sniper and precisely the unit you should be very worried about. (Basically, Tunguska, NCA and Varuna are the three worst sectorials you can face when it comes to MSV snipers) I can't speak for Starmada in details, but generally speaking brute-forcing a unit like that is a common way to deal with it (hence why Hector is popular, I guess) or coordinating a bunch of dangerous attacks (panzerfausts and cheap snipers). Stabbing the sniper's face is also a common tactic but tend to require Marker state, preferably with Climb+. You've also access to Cyberghosts that can put up White Noise, but Starmada's repeater spread is kind of bad, so I don't think I'd recommend that. It's difficult without breaking down the list idea, don't get me wrong. It's going to depend on the board a LOT, if you can pop a member of the fireteam (or better yet: two), it'll cause a lot less problems. If the board only allows your opponent to have 2" or smaller lines of fire with their units, you can probably dodge or cautious move forward to get inside their range. If your opponent isn't (or can't) guarding their flanks, then sticking down a Crusher to just demolish them will be enough.
EDIT: oops late answer White noise from Cyberghost (just has a pitcher, no midfield repeaters, but...) Also, Andromeda is a good option to move forward. There's not many things she can't do. Anyway I can't see true reliability in Starmada without Parvati+Hector/Bronze/Betas...
That's interesting - I just had a look at the Tunguska sectorial properly. Now I'm curious why he hasn't tried that on me! The coordinating trick is something I was looking at for my JSA/YJ where they can easily get long range attacks. It feels more difficult to pull off in Starmada because there's just not that many things that can reach out and touch. Same with the lack of ninjas/assassins. I think ultimately this just isn't looking as viable as going for something in Vanilla where you have more options to go for the same strategy with a few better counters for the MSV2 sniper or just enemy fireteams in general. Thanks for the thoughts all! Looks like I'll stick to using Starmada when I want to run Hector + Parvati and Friends.
Full AVA Crushers is a concept I tested a while ago. Turns out that two FD LRL are enough to bully the midfield. Sectorials are preferred over Vanilla for both Fireatems and AVAs. AVAs in Starmada are pointless or worst (look at you, Varangian!). It's hard to justify picking Starmada, leaving Vanilla goodies (Omega, Sirius, Gangbuster) for a mere duo link. So said: - Kappas: either Core o pass them. Shell game is better played with Cho. The only Kappa worth takean alone is the hacker profile (12 pts 0,5 swc is a steal). Kappa link hugely benefit by a MMR Psi and a Bluecoat ADHL. - Duo: Shona + Varangian is ok. Consider Varangian+Varangian or Varangian+Tain Gou (Jammer or KHD) too. Best results I got is with Duo Bronze RF/Paramedic+Santiago KHD. - Haris: either Pain Train (Hector+Beta+Parvati or Beta+Parvati+Tian Gou), Bronze Train (Bronze RF + Nyokas HRL + Parvati) or defensive Nyoka (usually HRL+MR+FO) are the one who brings the best results. Haris is not mandatory for Starmada, especially if focusing on defense or with Zeta. Additionally, one of the reason to pick Starmada is, apart from links and AVAs, the Tian Gou: KHD and Jammer profiles are outstanding. Not a fan of GuidedML. Two Crushers, an hacker and a couple of repeater are usually enough. Nyoka Parachutist FO is a good addition to put TARGETED on hard-to-reach troopers. MSV+Smoke and CC+Smoke are the go-to ways to deal with TR things. MSVs are easily dealt by O-12 and Starmada: - range: while we cannot out-range (no long range weapons), we can under-range (aka shooting from the bad range bands). Fast movers and FD are key here. - White Noise: Cyberghost and a couple Repeaters (Kytta, Oko, Fuzz), if well positioned, made cry a lot of Aquila Guards. - Cyber Mask: that Raptor KHD and their Devabot can easily reach the MSV trooper. the order expenditure for doing so seems steep (Cyber Mask is Entire Order and the target is usually quite far) but it somewhat mitigated by NCO and Mov 6-2. To sum it all up: Is possible to play acceptably with full AVA Crushers? Yes. Is possible to play acceptably without Hector? Yes. Is this list any good? I'd rather have a full Core to support midfield and help defend the ML bot, and use Lambda Engineer (for the same bot). An additional source of Targeted and you are ready to play. A very personal thoughts: I don't like GuidedML because makes you play A LOT around it. Starmada is not a versatile sectorial and playing in a even less versatile way is very hindering. I fully quote @Mahtamori on that. Anyway I fully support new ideas and unusual plays.
I would love to see a percentage of how many lists that have made top 32 at tournaments in N4 that have Andromeda available to them took her in their list. I suspect that it's over 90.
It's funny because I bought her along with Penthesilea when I was putting together Steel Phalanx fully intending to run both even though they were terrible at the time, because I liked the models. Now I don't feel I can put Andromeda down because me and my regular opponent are just getting back into N4 and I don't want to put him off.
Starmada deserves Andromeda. I quite understand your point of view and I appreciate it. But I don’t see any PanO leave Kamau at home for same reason. Same for Avatar, Cutter, Lu Duan and various other goodies. Aleph and Bureau Aegis granted us that stuff: let’s make it count! I usually attend tournaments with the same two list concept (be with vanilla or Starmada): the “big stupid guy” list (Hector or Zeta) and the “Andromeda” list. As far as I can tell, Andromeda is included in AT LEAST one list out of two both in vanilla and Starmada.
