I may have missed it, but I thought CB said the move to plastic was just for large models and smaller sculpts would remain metal. Why then, are we seeing a plastic Stephen Rao? I fear the allure of cheaper production may spell the end for me. I prefer metal miniatures, so if they go all plastic, I will most likely move on. The silver lining is I have more than enough miniatures as it is.
Bostria explains in the video that Stephen Rao is the miniature used when they are testing new things in the casting department.
Yep, he's their designated Guinea Pig model for any new technique or process. The move is just for large models for now. If the quality is there, tin prices continue to climb rediculously, and they can expand their production of Siocast we might see them shift to the new material for some smaller models in the future.
Yep, I know the words he said, but I also know what the act of “trying it out” on a smaller model means. I personally feel the move to all plastic is inevitable unless CB sees huge pushback. I get the materials are increasing in cost, everything is and I continue to buy those luxury items I want enough even at the new prices. I do understand them exploring certain options, but the change should not be underestimated in it’s possible long term effects and I also feel, with no proof admittedly, that they are far farther down the road of plastic for small/all models than they are letting on. The move to plastic makes Infinity far less special in my eyes as a collector of miniatures. Personally, I would pay more for metal…I may not buy at all for plastic. Just my personal opinions.
Well, siocast Stephen Rao proves one thing: siocast is a viable technology for making S2 models, apparently, without a loss in quality. I believe we're going to see S2 Infinity models in siocast eventually. Because there is a technical possibility, a financial incentive, and no loss in quality, apparently (though as Vostok's head / neck case shows, not yet a perfect skill to achieve it in every case at first try). The risk is that they'll loose some of their client base, who will draw the red line at non-metla models, or non-metal S2 models. I guess, however, that they have done the research, and have gauged that part of the player base as small enough to be risked. It will, however, have to be a gradual process - so far, CB is telling us they'll be releasing larger than S2 models in siocast. CB in general tends to take a gradual approach to things, as far as I can see it. Having seen Magno's thread on the model, and the redone (separate head) Vostok in the last vid, I'm willing to give the siocast Vostok a try. Not soon, likely, though, as for now it is boxed with 4 models I have no use for (and one I might, for completion's sake, use). I admit - I am not a collector in a strict sense: while I like to have al possible loadouts / sculpts for most of my Infinity troops, I see them first and foremost as gaming pieces. From that point of view, exact material they are made of doesn't matter much for me (though it will be nice to have models hefty enough to not be moved by breath while on table. But there are ways around it) - looking cool and representign what they are to represent does. While some of the old hands can afford to keep up with inevitable price rise that risng metal prices would bring, it might provide a barrier to potential new players. And let's be honest - we, the old hands, tend to have most of the mdoels we need already. Real money is to be made on selling models to those who yet need them all...
I feel for every 1 they loose due to plastic, they gain 1 or more. I've actually talked to a few at the game store that have said they don't want to play Infinity because it's metal. Sure the figs are beautiful but they don't want to work with metal. Some are actually intimidated by detail too. I guess they are just used to other company stuff. I started with metal way back in the day so I already had the tools for it. I think this move might help to grow. Players of plastic far out number metal now. Also, on price I hope they do what ever it takes to keep the price down. I nearly had a heart attack when I got the Shang Ji. $56 for 3 and a half figures! I was really tempted to put it back. Especially since I wanted to swap/convert around the sword arm. I don't want to spend that much money and screw it up! I laugh (sadly) when i read guys will pay more for metal. That starts getting into the "he who pays more wins" scenario. I had save for a few months to get those Shang Ji!
I wouldn't mind GW style hard plastics. But I'm firmly against bendy rubbery plastic. If they switch over completely I'll be done buying new models from them.
First, while I am at a place where I can afford to spend some bucks on non-essentials like toy soldiers, this has not always been the case, so I understand you quite well. However, I feel like you've misunderstood me and the other people who say they'd be willing to pay a bit more for metal. We don't say "don't go plastic", we say "if you also offer metal, we'd be willing to buy that". The Infinity community is small enough and everybody understands that loosing people due to elitism is not a good thing. CB's bendy plastic is actually more durable from GW's hard plastic. The question is how well this flexibility interacts with paint and green stuff.
Paint, probably quite well, the Siocast say you can paint it even without primer, glue sticks extremely well and aggressive, no clue on how well Green Stuff sticks to it.
I think there's a lot more that goes on with production that would make it difficult to do both a plastic and metal of the same figure. That's two different molds and workers needing to work on them when they could be doing it on other figures. I want them coming out with figures that they still haven't made yet! $56 is a hard sell for only 3 figures. No matter how cool they look. And of those three only one is probably going to see a lot of time on the table. I came very close to putting it back because of that more than anything else. But I've been waiting for Shang Ji to come out for 12 effing years and they look cool! But if prices keep going up it's going to be like GW again for me and I'll need to proxy everything or play other games. I got out 40k mainly because I just couldn't afford it anymore. So again I welcome anything that can keep me in the game. I think too many are taking this way out of proportion. Other than TAG raid, a game very few people are going to be able to buy, what other figures will be coming out with this? Long Ya, Shakush, Bearpode and... I don't know if this was brought up either but think of the poses they can now do that were impossible before due to the weight of metal. If you want examples, just look at the figures for Marvel Crisis Protocol. There's poses that could never be done in metal. Even at their size.
Bendy plastic feels cheap, doesn't maintain shape/position, is more annoying to work with, feels worse when used for bits and you have mixed materials on minis, etc. I'm not worried about durability, i don't throw minis across a room. I want rigid models. The metal minis are a key reason I got into and have continued with Infinity. If I want plastic I have GW minis or for resin 3d printed I could proxy.
I believe one of the Infinity podcasts are putting vostok parts in an oven as a test soon. If you are worried about it deforming should probably look that up to see what happens.
In my experience, "I'd play it if it were plastic" is code for "I'd play it if it had a GW logo on it." If they're intimidated by detail, they shouldn't be pandered to. I'm not a great painter but I get by. No, no it's not.
Though, they do plenty of limited edition models, so it's not impossible. The siocast stuff currently is all big stuff though, and in the past I think most "limited" TAG's were just an arm swap or whatnot from a basic one.
Unless you have some information that I don't - it is not a priori obvious that the manpower for making the molds and casting the figures is a bottleneck for them releasing more products. It may be, but we don't know how they operate. And other companies manage to maintain two materials in their lines. Eh, everybody has materials that he prefers. Some don't like metal, because its more difficult to glue or kitbash. Others, as mentioned, don't like "rubbery plastic" because it "feels cheap". Third prefer or dislike metal for the weight... I wouldn't automatically dis people for that, everybody has preferences for the material and it's not necessarily connected with Old Geedubs.
From the Siocast werewolves I've handled, it's not like the board games cheapo PVC. It's not rubbery at all. It feels more like an semielastic resin rather than rubber. I've already tossed the sprues, but they looked like those: Imagine a stick about twice this long (these are also Siocast minis). I've bent it into a "ribbon", touching end to end. It did not break, it did not deform or change color to brighter (which would indicate structural damage) and when I've let go it snapped back to almost straight, slightly bent. I've bent it back a bit and let go and then it was perfectly straight again. It's totally nothing like PVC or resin, that much I can say. It's good material in of itself, I'm worried more about the process and quality control. The changes done to Vostok give me hope that Bearpode will be QC'd well enough not to have major issues.
Today I got a meteor and an old zond box, so I decided to compare the mold lines on them with what we have for the Vostok. Since I don't have a vostok, I sourced a couple of pictures from the thread. From the three identical bodies that I have, one has mold lines that look very comparable to the mold lines of the vostoks. The other two - admittedly much less so. So even if all vostoks look, in terms of mold slips and lines, like the ones that were send for preview, they will not be outside of the currently acceptable for CB. Maybe, on average, worse mold lines, but definitely not something unacceptably bad.
I have personaly recieved the new Vostok Sputnik and have to say the mold lines are definately better than some I have seen in past on CB metal models. The details are good, only diference is how to prepere the model and remove the mold lines. The file + cleaning by knife side does not work well with siocast. You need to do Sharp knife cutting and use fine grid sandpaper instead.
