Every so often I actively try and find uses for models that sink to the bottom of the box (low play value). I'm realizing that list has grown significantly with the introduction of N4. With so many wild cards some profiles that were a main stay in my list now have been relegated to the bottom tray. Ghulam: I'll skip these. They are supposed to be the low quality models that can take any role. But the NCO profile make other profiles obsolete. Muyibs: These where the absolute mainstay of HB, now I think the only version I use is the HRL. The Ghulam core is more flexible, and the addition of the NCO Ghulam makes the LGL muyib obsolete. The TA Spitfire is tempting, but the Asawira spitfire usually is worth the extra points. So of the 10 usable profiles in N3, I see 1 being high value, and maybe 2 being decent. The rest are obsolete. Asawira: My HB 'TAG' was always a duo of these guys. Spitfire and doctor were my usual choices. Now that they have wildcard, the Spitfire is auto-include, and the rest are just obsolete. Govads: These guys were always second tier models. With the addition of Yara and the fact you lose ghulam NCO if you use them for your core, these guys just dropped off the face of the earth. The hacker has some potential being a veteran, but not much. The fact the Ghulam core can have Barids with pitchers makes it hard to add the govad hacker. Do you think CB will change their packaging, or discontinue models instead of sectorals. The Muyib box is a little pricy if you just want 1 model. I doubt anyone actually buys the Govads anymore. There is no actual model for the NCO. If CB wants to make a functional action pack for HB what would you put in them. Asawira Spitfire Muyib HRL Daylami PF (multiple) Barid Ghulam NCO Fiday
Not all purchases and packaging are driven solely by competetive play besides its pretty rich to call all ghulams, muyibs and asawiras aside from one profile each obsolete. you dont run doctors? you dont run 2 asawiras?
Right, so these two. The argument for playing Govads over Ghulam is the Govad unlocks access to an MSV Hacker. MSV hackers are able to ZOC ARO bait inside smoke, which the Muyib provides within their link. Outside of your opponent being equipped with a hacking device or MSV themselves, the Govid hacker is able to force normal rolls against any target. Opponent declares dodge? They get hacked unopposed. They reset? Enjoy B3 Boarding shotgun templates to the face. Kobayishi Maru. Being a Veteran hacker is just icing on top of the cake.
You can also go 4 wildcards + Govad ML for msv1 aro to ruin the day of smoke armies not necessarily better - and more expensive than muyib but locking the game is valuable
The Ghulam Doctor is a legend. The Lt (+1 command token) is very nice, and then a second one as a decoy. The hacker would be great if he weren't eclipsed by the Barid - still useful if you want three hackers in your list. Panzerfaust No.2 is a discount Muyib HRL. The guy with E/M mines, a.k.a super-awesome mines, is also interesting. The SWC Ghulams suffer from the same problem as all factions' SWC line troops, discussed elsewhere in the forums. But other than that, I think Ghulams are in a good place. I use the minelayers in Looting and Sabotaging and sometimes Panic Room. Being able to minelay the two best mines in the game is pretty unique. You can also use Yara to forward deploy the mines. Mission-specific but still great. I also want to experiment with the Spitfire in Looting and Sabotaging and Panic Room. She has D-Charges. In fact I have a L&S list I want to try that has a full 6 Muyibs - minelayers to protect my objective, and a core link full of D-Charges to go after the enemy objective. One fantastic profile and at least three other interesting ones is pretty good. Lots of good troopers have only one good profile. The Doctor is hugely popular on these forums, so I think you'll find yourself in the minority on this one. I find both Doctor profiles interesting, and take them frequently, but struggle to make them earn their points. Others seems to be having better luck with them. I'm also been known to take a Haris - Spitfire, Doctor, and DA CCW - especially in L&S and Panic Room. I haven't done it recently but it was definitely a playable approach. Three Asawiras look pretty terrifying from the other side of the table. Yeah, Govads suffer the same problem as most factions' MI, also discussed extensively elsewhere in the forums. It's a basic design issue where they have neither the cheapness of LI nor the durability of HI. Frankly, Muyibs are the exception in that they're actually good MI (although only because they're wildcards). Govads are much more typical of where MI are at right now - all but useless.
For what it's worth, I see the occasional LGL and FO Muyib, and often see the Doctor Muyib. The Doctor Asawira is practically mainstay and I never see the world #3 play HB without it (primarily the BSG version due to the DA CCW). The Ghulam doctor makes it into practically all HB lists I see as well, largely thanks to it's huge practical utility, and the hacker is low key superb and absolutely vital for Dahshat. I'm also personally fond of the sniper Ghulam for skew reasons. I do think all profiles need to be competitive to have a reason to be bothered with, but not all profiles have to be directly competitive in the sense that they are auto-includes. There's a bunch of minor utility reasons for certain profiles to exist such as the plain rifle Ghulam that provides reasonable cover for the LT or the No2 profile that's actually quite important to Dahshat who don't get Muyib, or if you run a budget Ghulam team. Edit. Hell, the HMG Ghulam has been MVP in a few games of Dahshat.
The muyib doc is one of the decent ones I was thinking of. But The Ghulam Doc is significantly cheaper, and performs the same role. I'm assuming everyone is in the fireteam when making the comparison. I said I skipped the ghulam analysis, not all are obsolete. As for 2 Asawira, I'd probably run 2 Spitfires in 2-3 man fireteams to have 2 attack vectors. Duoing an asawira with a cheaper specialist seems better to me. For my N3 playstyle I used the non-spitfire asawira as a way to bring a specialist with the spitfire, and negate the frenzy. In N4 you can get cheaper options. I recently tried the govad hacker as an ARO device. I've come to the conclusion that against HI Stealth army you're better off pitchering half the table and than having a Sixth sense hacker team to completely jam them. I usually pair this with baggage just to make it worthwhile to risk placing them at long range (16+ inches). I find a single barid in a fireteam with Sixth sense is more cost effective and versatile. Its just not as resilient. It's also a lot easier to fit in. I'd probably only really try the govad hacker again if I was trying the Govad ML (as @fatherboxx mentioned), but that's it.
I used to only use the doctor when duoed with a spitfire, and the BS was useful for cornering. I'll revisit it, but to me the spitfire is auto-include. There are cheaper doctors available to follow up the big gun.
This isn't in ARO, the Govad hacker can fuck up nearly anything with normal rolls in your active turn. It is a high % success rate piece with a 0% risk rate. You can't really ask for a much better attack option in the game when you take away your opponent's ability to declare a face to face roll.
I'm not calling them auto-include, just that they are far from obsolete and quite useful ;) The Asawira doctor, however, is consistently an absolute nightmare to dislodge and due to their ability to both kill most things they can get to, their speed, and their ability to get the AP Spitfire or a nasty Muyib up and running again... they're strong. Very strong. Regardless of what team they're in.
Cool, thanks for the idea. I don't have time to review the interactions in depth now, but at a glance wouldn't the ARO piece be able to ARO at -6 since it's being targeted by an attack.
From elsewhere with similar units being discussed. The shoot back through smoke business requires the reactive unit to be the target of a BS Attack, if the active unit doesn't shoot the reactive unit will idle instead. If they declare to shoot, the Govad elects to Oblivion/Spotlight unopposed. The point is to declare the opposite of what they pick so their ARO is always wasted.
Hello, if I have to point on "obsoletes" profiles for HB in this N4 my eyes will be focused on "ayar" + "yasbir", both too expensive for what they provides to the sectorial. First of all I think some profiles aren't for every match. The mission, the table, and the rival do a lot on what we choose. Second, I believe I'am one of that guys which right now don't see the "asawiras" as "autoinclude". I'am more of the opinion that you can choose what do you want to include, with good and bad things, advantages or disadvantages. Ghulams, of course not every profile become a priority, not when we still have AVA4. So, NCO granade launcher, Lt+1command token and doctor are the priority. But still, as others said before, nº2+panzerfaust can do a "funny ARO fireteam", and the e/m mines option is really good. Always if we are looking for cheap options. Good ones, but not the "better ones", and yet usefull ones. Ghazi, they are still really usefull. Yes, maybe not as they were in the past, when we put the four. Now they can be use in that scernarios where the exclusion zone exists, making the daylamis not so good, or picking one of two with whatever option suits our battle plan. Muyibs... yes, before they become wildcart it was easy to see a full five fireteam of this guys. Ok, maybe not five, because asawira were wildcar in the late N3. Same as @QueensGambit I find really interesting the guys with minelayer for some missions. I use to play one of even two of them as "zone controllers" and as fireteam replacements. I played a lot the "spitfire" in a "haris". That extra order is gold. Same to the HRL. If I have problems to include in my lists is the "FO", one profile of eleven... Asawiras... Yes, the spitfire AP is the "easy choice", but the doctor, if you are capable of spare the extra cost compared to Avicena or the Muyib doctor... is a great companion of "our heavy shooter". Even the "plain CCDA asawira" is great if we are playing missions where antimaterial ammo is required. Govads... sadly I can't go in defense of this guys. I can put in a secure zone the hmg one, but only because it has uses in a haris as "long range heavy burst" weapon. Hackers could be an interesting choice if we don't have Leila or Ghulam or, overall, Barids... About the "visor" discussion, what we have now Yara, I don't have the same feeling as I have when I think on Yara in Ramah. Yara is a good adition to hassasin, but don't fight with anyone for a place. You have to choose: better visor but shorter weapon, or longer weapon but worse visor... In Ramah I hardly find a reason to take, for example, khawari instead of Yara. Every time I play with hassasin I feel I can make the list I want, without worry if it will be a good list. The other day, talking with a friend, we conclude that right now, hassasin is in a good place not because you can have "asawira" in a five fireteam shooting to 20's with an AP Spitfire, but because you can choose other alternatives and still the list will be a good one. The last tournaments I played one list without any Asawira and I really didn't missed it.
