Standard. Tactical Window 15 slot limit remains in effect. The game's footprint remains the same there's just more combat effective units hitting the table over raw order batteries.
I can concede that against someone that knows their hacking, they can defuse the hacker link, but how does the hacker link using Reset make it 100%? B1 on a WIP 13 vs B2 on WIP 9 is 100%? Even if the SJ only needs a 8 to pass? Also you are somewhat wrong about the ORC feuerbach vs SJ AP HMG. At ARM 8 it outperforms barely (fractional) at causing one wound, but more likely to wounds twice (5%). At ARM 10, the AP HMG actually has a fractional advantage at causing a wound, slight advantage of not being wounded (3%) where as the Feuerbach has a slight advantage at getting a second wound (2%). All these numbers are ridiculously low so to claim the Feuerbach is mildly overpowing the AP HMG is laughable.
Danavas Oblivion is B3, FYI. I get around 55% chance of success if the Shang Ji idles (Zhanshi preemptive Oblivion), and about 35% if he resets, in which case the Danavas can keep trying unimpeded (I think that's what he may have meant by 100%).
Because the Zhanshi have already declared Oblivion AROs, the Shang Ji if it declares Reset once targetted by an Oblivion now causes the link to fracture because we have different ARO types going out (same thing happens if the hackers declare different hacking programs). If the Shang Ji Resets, all the Zhanshi hackers fall out of the fireteam integrity with the Shang Ji, hence 100% chance to fuck up the link and regardless of whether the Oblivion against the Shang Ji succeeds you now have de-firewalled the hackers leaving you with an extremely vulnerable geek squad. Thankyou for agreeing that your previous statement about WhiteCo lacking armour piercing brute force in comparison to White Banner is demonstrably false.
That makes sense. I mean the said situation only happens if I got baited into doing the Oblivion with hackers, but I get what you are saying. I did slightly underestimate the power of Feuerbachs, but I still think WBA is pretty hard to beat when it comes to how much Anti high ARM it has.
So now the plan is to pay points and SWC for multiple hackers as some kind of defensive hacking ARO squad who then proceed to make absolutely zero use of that. By refusing to attack the enemy, they will fail to achieve any ARO effect of consequence at all and will not prevent an enemy hacker such as the Danavas from doing literally: And I quote: "WBA does miss out on a lot of these tools, but defensively it is one of the strongest hacking armies in the game. The Hack squad of WBA may not look impressive, but it literally smacks any offensive hacker in the game." Yeah so anyway, it's not and by your own admission they don't even dare declare a hacking program incase they fuck up their own fire team integrity. White Banner can project a decent hacking network to keep a conventional HI/TAG/REM alpha strike out of its face or at least slow it down but any real hacking force will dominate it in the infowar game without breaking a sweat. One hacker attached to a linked tinbot is a useful tool to pack into your list that can be thrown away for no major consequence. Burning a full 2 SWC for a full geek squad is just a meme and stops you from spending SWC which WB has a high demand for on more important shit like Hundun and various minelayers. I think you actually need to have a look at other factions, it's really not. It's not even the top dog in that regard in faction because Invincibles are better at that game than they are. You want to look outside the faction? They're not even top dog in their own 2 faction box mirror, the B4 Feuerbach Karhu in Winter Force makes a joke out of them. If you want to point at something WB is actually a top end contender at it's camo spam, but not at 300 points.
It is fantastic that in your situation, 100% of the time pitchers land the first time they are shot with no AROs at all to the person who is pitching all the way down the table for this perfect pitcher shot that hits the whole 5 man fireteam. Against the top hacking armies in the game, WBA may not hold up as well, but it is still better than the majority of factions. The whole infowar game can easily be solved by whoever goes first though. White Co may have some outstanding hackers offensively, but what happens when they get picked off first? IA is about the same as WB though when it comes to anti-High ARM? They each have a good amount of AP stuff scattered throughout. You seem to really like the Karhu, maybe you should play factions with them in it? Everyone knows they are pretty good since they are literally holding SWF on their shoulders. Karhu can outshoot anything when it comes to raw damage so its amazing to pull an example from literally the peak option.
Valerya has a 64% success rate at 40" and it just gets better the closer you get, and yes with a 16" diameter bubble it is very easy to encapsulate at least 4 if not the entire 5 man core in a Pitcher. Having frequently been on the receiving end of this from White Co the core link usually fights its way all of 8" forwards with BS16-17 SWC guns. Valerya fires her Pitcher off on 11s, which has an 80% success rate and will now project a hacking zone 40" ahead of her DZ, which is further than my side of the table is away from her. Targets of value are now under a repeater and the Danavas starts ruining them which may or may not culminate in something of mine eating shit from a guided missile. You cannot run from this and the only way to hide is to be under a camo marker. There are ways to play avoid this from leading to an automatic defeat, but generally speaking you have to accept that some of your shit is going to get hacked and the best you can do is to make sure that you have enough resources that remain unhacked to continue on with. To pretend that you are not vulnerable to being easily engaged by said hackers is a foolish stance to take, and a good opponent will likely punish the ever loving shit out of you for that hubris. IA is flat out superior, they have more core linking AP options and access to MSV2 ones as well as the best anti ARM ammo type in the game, K1. IA's skirmishers are all AP equipped as well, the Liu Xing and Zencha being better at dealing with armour than their LI equivalents in the Guilang and Tiger. IA also has Monofilament which WB does not, I owe more than a few games to the Hulang cutting 3 wound recreations in half to clear out objective rooms. EDIT: Actually that last sentence is incorrect, I keep forgetting Adil is in WB. It's not just the Karhu there's insane stuff out there like the Mormaers and Azra'il. You need to get out and play more if you think White Banner of all factions holds some kind monopoly on ARM countering weaponry. It's not like a faction needs alot of AP options either, literally one very good one is all it takes. You think core linked Shang Ji is the best shit ever for AP options? Ok, Vanilla CA needs exactly one and it's better than the Shang Ji. It's called an Avatar. It will run 14 orders right through that Multi HMG all day long and fuck stuff up. Again, White Banner is not a particularly amazing sectorial in this field despite what you claim. It is better at dealing with high ARM targets than garbage like ISS but last I checked that wasn't a great metric. They have a decent option in the Shang Ji, but trying to claim stupid outlandish stupid shit like they massively outgun WhiteCo or are an amazing shooting based power house does nobody any favours. Really it just comes across as you're fanboying over China number one.
WB does have access to monofilament. It's on a platform too costly to really fit in to any of the compositions that WB needs to fill in all the basics needed to get off the ground, and doesn't really have the kit needed to actually get that mono CCW into position to actually use it, but WB does get MI Adil. WB's anti-armour capacity basically lives and dies on the shoulders of Shang Jisus and Blue Wolf the Baptist. And the Wolf suffers from pretty much all the same issues that any MBT does in N4. It's a real shame that WB gets none of the amazing wildcarded engineers that IA saw in the transition to N4, because it would do the dog a world of good. All in all, that's hardly substantial, especially compared to what other factions are capable of. I'd imagine they would rank on the lower end of the spectrum of anti-armour capabilities. Shang Jisus is a really good general purpose bruiser, but, as noted above, he's outdone in singular capacity by many others, and in factions that have more options for the job, too. I wouldn't say WB is necessarily bad for that, but it's definitely not something I'd consider as a strength of the faction for it.
Going back to the Jujaks, being able to bolt a cheaper Tinbot onto the Blue Wolf would be a great use for them. If only we could do that.
First off WBA is just one of the many sectorials I play. I am glad that I have hubris assuming that the pitcher strat won’t always work as well as you love to pretend it does. Your own hubris always assumes that somehow the Danavas and Valerya are always in prime positions and that even if I get turn 1 there is nothing I can do to stop them. It might be more order intensive/risky but WBA is capable of hitting the Danavas first in the infowar and then frying her with one of its’ Camo marker hackers and set up to nuke her from orbit. Now you will claim this is a crazy waste of orders even if it stops her from creating havoc on my own units. I’m glad you like to try to make look insignificant by belittling me as if I have no multi-faction knowledge/experience.Thank you for pointing out the Avatar, I never knew it existed! Something doesn’t have to be Karhu level to be good against armor. Lets look at the WBA roster, out of 31 slots, 20 units have something AP against either ARM or BTS. IA has about 18 out of 28. IA definitely has more Core linkable options and generally stronger guns getting a linkable Multi Sniper and multiple AP HMGs. WB does get Ye Mao, Long Yas, and the Blue Wolf which are no slouches. Both IA and WB get a large amount of AP options though, and that was my point. They might not always be the biggest of guns, but each faction isn’t short on ways to hit Big things. Please point out where I said Shang Jisus literally walks on water and is better than anything else in the game when it comes to shooting. All I ever mentioned is I think WBA has more firepower than WhiteCo and this short circuited you. I’m not trying to “fanboy” WBA, I’m trying to give it a fair shake over some of the louder voices on this subforum who bemoan over every other faction in the game. It really isn’t constructive to this subforum at all and just gives it its’ reputation. I don’t think we will ever see eye to eye on most things, but as long as you are here to preach negativity, I will try to preach positivity. Like I mentioned above, WBA does have some good close range AP/Breaker options even if they aren’t the hottest shit in the world. Also B2 Panzerfaust is always something a TAG has to fear. I know Ye Mao might be memey, but they are a B5 BS12 Mim-3 MSV1 AP spitfire. To finally bring this whole thing back to topic, I do agree with you and Triumph that Jujaks should have been able to Duo BWs, as it really would have been awesome.
Which, comes to an interesting possibility. With everything and their dog getting wildcard, passing it on to the Jujak could help a lot. Blue Wolf+Jujak could benefit greatly from either combat engineer or tinbot variant, and could be enough on its own to push WB out of its monobuild hell. I still don't think it would be enough for the Jujak, but it'd be a simple and easily implemented fix that wouldn't hurt anything. (also, Liang Kai needs Wildcard and/or the ability to link with Shaolin. I will carry this torch until the end of time, it's asinine that he can't team up with his own temple, and yet is fine jumping on board with some random mercs)
Would atleast make Zhanshi links a little more interesting too. 100% on Liang Kai, really wish he could join things other than Jing Qo…
Considering that Liang Kai is all about wanting to right the indiscriminate wrongs of Yu Jing's operations, and Jing Qo is basically an ascended Kuang Shi... I find that particular fireteam to be a bit suspect, especially when he can't party up with anyone else.
It is statistically a highly reliable play, I'm sorry you don't like maths. The Danavas doesn't have to move. Valerya is capable of moving, she is attached to a core link fully capable of fighting her into position. Again, played this particular match alot. No, seeking and destroying the Danavas through some early means is exactly what you should do but that's not relevant to the discussion. The point was "The Hack squad of WBA" is a shitty meme and not some awesome hacking powerhouse you were trying to sell. You don't need 4 idiots in a fire team to do that, and as pointed out to you they're not what you claimed which was a difficult tool that "literally smacks any offensive hacker". I mean you're here trying to overhype things and peddling crappy memes. I have no issue with people talking up White Banner just as long as they're talking about things that are actually true. For example if you were trying to make the point that White Banner one of the few sectorials that get access to multiple MSV hackers plus smoke which are a highly potent tool and can even tinbot one of them? Absolutely, in fact the Ye Mao haris is one of the real reasons to play the sectorial because it has abilities so few armies get access to. It's an infowar tool that only 1 out of 3 Nomad sectorials get access to and it's a bloody good one. White Banner being some armour cracking power house? No, it's not. White Banner having some magically impenetrable defensive hackers? No, they aren't. I don't have an issue with you being positive about White Banner, I have an issue with you trying to sell factually incorrect shit as a positive about it. That annoys me.
I love how many times this happens: Random guy: "this YJ shit is great and the best thing since sliced bread" (in this case amazing AP and uber hacking protection for WB) Triumph: "it's actually not because all of these actually well thought up and logical reasons" Random guy: "I have nothing to counter your arguments with so let me try to move the goal posts" (like "but what if you maybe miss your 80% pitcher several times or your hackers ALL DIE")
So back on the topic of our brand new Jujak Character. What if our Sergeant is really meant to be some sort of leader, something that they even tried to show on her model. My hopeful thinking has led me to this: she will have Special fireteam So-Ra Kwon counts as both Junak and Shang Ji for fireteam composition + Fireteam Harris. Top it off with NCO and Tinbot profile and we basically have Tai Sheng clone. All Jujak fireteams without Shang Ji, without changing fireteams in WBA. So what do you think, what are the chances for that? Less than 0.1% or more?
I mean we're all bitching about WB already trying to ape too many things (poorly) from IA, I really don't want that to continue even further. I'll be pretty disappointed if this is what we get. "Here's a Korean Tai Sheng with a weaker gun, and NCO for an army that's probably only got 1 LT order." Sure it's better than not having the option at all but I'd still be real salty about it being totally wasted potential for something cool or game changing.
