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Yu Jing Hackers

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Space Ranger, Jul 19, 2021.

  1. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Yu Jing isn't known as being a hacking faction but we do have some ok hackers. I'd like to get some dialog on how people have found them to be and how to use them effectively.

    Deployment Hackers
    For the the hackers that are in the deployment, for me, the Daoying is fantastic. WIP14, BTS3, with Camo is fantastic for the ponts. Of the non-camo troops, the standby is still the Celestial Guard for the points. Surprisingly the REM Racer is pretty good for the points with WIP13, BTS6, for 21pts. And the Zhanying adds in some flexibility with Sixth Sense and D-Charges. We actually have some great hacking HI. That's not the role I personally want them in, but they are especially good in the sectorals fireteams with tinbots. The Zhanying and Zhanshi are some of the cheaper troops that can take advantage as well.

    ZHANSHI (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 16)
    CELESTIAL GUARD (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 18)
    REM RACER (Hacker, RemDriver [+1 BS], Hacking Device) Submachine Gun ( ) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 21)
    ZHÀNYING (Hacker, Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 25)
    DĀOYĪNG (Hacker, Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun ( ) / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 27)
    PHEASANT IMPERIAL AGENT (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, E/Mitter ( ) / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 28)
    YĚ MĀO (Hacker, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 31)
    CRANE AGENT (Hacker, Hacking Device, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser(+1B) ( ) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0.5 | 46)
    HAC TAO (Hacker, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser ( ) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0.5 | 62)
    SHÀNG JÍ (Hacker, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 41)

    Forward/combat jump hackers
    Of the forward working hackers, the Guilang is still the staple in Vanilla and WB, But I also like the Kanren in Vanilla. I believe he's the only holoecho hacker right now.

    TIGER SOLDIER (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Light Flamethrower ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 34)
    KǍNRÈN (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0.5 | 28)
    GŬILÁNG (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Shock Mines ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 30)
    NINJA (Hacker, Hacking Device) Submachine Gun ( ) / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0.5 | 35)
    LIÚ XĪNG (Hacker, Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun ( ) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 37)
    ZHĒNCHÁ (Hacker, Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 41)
    DÀOFĚI (Hacker, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 56)

    Killer Hackers
    Not what it once was but still useful. The Ninja is still a staple for pushing buttons if not trying to kill hackers. I've recently learned to like the Ye Mao KHD due to cybermask mixed with Super Jump allows a for a fairly speedy specialist. Sadly the Haidao is only good in IA with a Tinbot. That BTS0 is just sad.

    TIAN GǑU 1st Section (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    HǍIDÀO (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun ( ) / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
    KǍNRÈN (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
    PHEASANT IMPERIAL AGENT (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, E/Mitter ( ) / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 28)
    YĚ MĀO (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 29)
    NINJA (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow ( ) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 29)

    EVO Hacker
    The EVO is it what is just like all of the others.

    Anyone want to share their favorites and why?
     
  2. Lareon

    Lareon Well-Known well-knower

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    Crane agent, definitely. It's a multi-tool hacker with wip 14 and a very high bts, and in ISS can be linkable with a tinbot unit becoming an awesome - 6 mod / BTS 9 trainwreck. I love it
     
  3. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I've thought he'd be pretty good in ISS. It's just a little awkward when you need to put him in a Wu Ming team to get the tinbot. Thankfully the rest can be Zhanying to keep the cost down.

    I didn't put in the Deva but he's only available to ISS. But for cost he's the best deployment hacker ISS has for the cost. Sadly, no way to get tinbots. But then the Celestial Guard is in the same boat. I've made a bunch of lists with the hacker and a couple Dakini's to keep him company as a Haris team though.

    DEVA (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 28)
    DEVA (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
     
  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    The Crane's ok in a vacuum, real issue is the sectorial is clunky as fuck and sorting out a link for the Crane with tinbot protection sucks, you get more mileage out of a Shang Ji in IA or WB for the functional cost of 1 WIP giving you fireteams with more orders for less cost and immeasurably better wildcard support.

    Daofei is a solid pick for several missions, including those with numerous classifieds. The Hacker profile can complete 14 out of 20 classifieds. Its toolkit containing Camo, Infiltration, and D-Charges also make it a natural at missions that require objective destruction such as Looting and Sabotaging and Mindwipe. In fact my last game on Looting and Sabotaging a Daofei managed to sneak in a very easy first turn rush on the objective thanks to a Monk long bombing a couple of smoke grenades.
     
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  5. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I find the Daofei to be too pricey for me. In vanilla I'd pick the Liu Xing for hacking or the SO for D-Charges. Of course White Banner is more limited. But I would possibly take in there. But I'd rather he be shooting things up while the Guilangs do the hacking.
     
  6. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    You can also put the crane in a Hsien marksman rifle haris to get the tinbot, maybe taking Xi or a Zhanying along for madtraps. It's a lot of eggs in a three man haris and much more expensive than a Zhanying hacker to dodge picking up sixth sense in a three man link... but I can also see it working to get a hard to kill hacker up the board for Mindwipe. A core Kuang Shi link to blow smoke and that haris could punch up the table pretty well.
     
  7. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    It really depends on what you expect to get out of the unit. You're paying for versatility with the profile which translates to order efficiency. If all you want to do is shoot shoot shoot then realistically in Vanilla you ditch the Daofei entirely and just pick up one of the Hac Tao profiles given they cost almost the same these days.
     
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  8. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that's very pricy and I think a Zhanying hacker in the team would do just as well. It has SS too. But it might be fun in certain missions.

    The Hac Tao is certainly good but the Daofei can get inside some of the bad ranges of HMGs or snipers. TBH though I haven't tried the hacker yet. I'll need to use him next time I play WB.
     
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    It only matters against MSV2 units. MSV1 or worse the Hac Tao HMG is statistically better usually. For example it gets better odds firing at 32" at a Grenzer or Bolt MSR versus a Daofei Spitfire engaging the same target under 16".

    That Hac Tao's superior native BS, Damage, plus the extra mimetism completely offsets moving the MSR to its +0 range band.
     
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  10. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    Generally, a Zhanying hacker would be better and cheaper... unless you need to get somewhere and smash an AC2. Having the extra wound, BTS and combat skills might just get you the mission. Let me have imaginary fun with my super-friends haris...
     
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  11. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Looking into this, I've realized that YJ seems to be the only ones with Holoecho hackers. Edit: forgot Starmada has Tian Gou.

    TIAN GǑU (Surprise Attack [-3], Minelayer, Hacker], Killer Hacking Device, Holoprojector) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Madtraps ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    KǍNRÈN (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
    KǍNRÈN (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0.5 | 28)

    What kind of things can you do with a combination of hacker and holo echoes?
    1. Moving an echo, out of line of site, into range of a enemy hacker to get them to react or delay to the echo. You can then move along with the rest.
    2. Moving echoes and actual into range of the enemy and just like shooting, they need to pick a target to hack.
    3. Move one echo or actual in to LoS and another into ZoC but out of LoS. The enemy has to pick to ARO vs. Shooting or hacking. Edit: Sorry I just realized that the enemy can delay against holoecho trooper.
    4. KHD Hackers can give up the echoes and go into Cybermask. For example, echoes are already gone. Instead of going back into echo you can cybermask to move past mines or whatever is needed.​

    Question: if echoes are used up but the hacker is in the ZoC but not LoS of an enemy hacker, do the echoes still come back in the states phase? Unlike a camo hacker. He doesn't need to pay an order to get the echoes to come back and cause an ARO.
     
    #11 Space Ranger, Jul 20, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
  12. Lareon

    Lareon Well-Known well-knower

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    I admit I usually use it in duo with a Wu Ming, using the team as an hunter-killer toolbox (I find the Boarding Shotgun Wu Ming more reliable and sacrificable for short range defense). Low signature, easy to move, it leaves me core and haris slots for something more specific
     
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  13. zapp

    zapp Well-Known Member

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    post got lost
     
  14. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Actually now that its floated back to the front of my memory, I think I brought this up ages ago in your N4 games thread @Space Ranger EDIT: Yes, in fact I did.


    GŬILÁNG (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Shock Mines ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 30)
    YĚ MĀO (Hacker, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 31)

    These two assholes are part of a very selective group of hackers that carry MSV and have access to smoke. When you manage to set them up correctly to abuse their mechanics it truly feels good.

    [​IMG]

    For you anyway. Not so much whoever you're bullying. It's a relatively rare option that Yu Jing happens to get access to so it's worth mentioning again.
     
    #14 Triumph, Jul 24, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
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  15. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    The new FAQ has poopooed that particular brand of shenanigans. As you can now declare shoot if they move into lof even in smoke.
     
  16. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Bleh true actually, for the Ye Mao anyway. The Guilang can still get away with this because they're abusing mines and don't need to give a legal shot to the reactive model, they can force a model to pick between getting hit by the mine or giving the hacking attack a normal roll.

    I think that actually makes them entirely unique in Infinity? The only unit that has mines, MSV, smoke support, and a hacking device. They'd literally be the only profile that can get away with this.

    EDIT: Thinking about it some more you can use the Guilang Minelayer or Krit Kokram to functionally extend the same option sans the smoke. Drop a repeater, then throw a mine around the corner. Then activate the hacker wherever on the table and make your opponent eat a mine.
     
    #16 Triumph, Jul 24, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
  17. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Actually, further thoughts in regards to the Ye Mao hacker attempting a premptive BS attack with the errata. It can still get some mileage out of the MSV to stack a -12 MOD on targets even with sixth sense because it won't work vs a Comms attack.

    Assuming you're engaging a BS13 core linked dude in its +3 range band for lets say a combi, your opponent shoots back on 7s. Statistically a spotlight rolling F2F against that gets with rounding 50% vs 16% to succeed

    If they ARO Reset to not set themselves up for a guided missile then you can fire the B4 Multirifle on uncontested 9s. So they probably don't do that would be my assumption.

    The advantage of not just standing out of LOF and spotlighting away and accepting the risk of potentially taking a wound would be that you can try to force better odds the hack goes through, it's better odds than allowing the F2F reset particularly when the target is WIP14 or greater. The potential risk is also isn't that bad, and becomes almost negligable especially if you're doing this to 4 man or smaller links or solo operators who don't get the extra +3 BS bonus.

    Against Haris or Solo operators you're statistically better off shooting though, so you'd only do this against multiwound models that are in a position to potentially Guts check away to a safe position like around a corner or prone behind some cover as it's probably only somewhere in the realms of 20-30% you get 2 wounds through in one go to put down a multiwound model, so spotlighting them for guided missile deletion at your leisure is potentially the better play depending on positioning.


    EDIT: See Mahtamori's point below
     
    #17 Triumph, Jul 24, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
  18. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    They can declare it, sure, but their BS Attack will only be validated at step 5 if the Guilang/Ye Mao shot at them with a BS Attack. If the Guilang/Ye Mao hack the target instead, the opponent's BS Attack ARO will not be allowed to draw LOF through the smoke (unless they have MSV) and will fail the requirements for their BS Attack and go to Idle.
     
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  19. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Well forget everything I said in my previous posts then. Our MSV hackers are still able to be huge assholes.
     
  20. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Well I'll be. I had wrongly assumed zero v zones return attack clause triggered if you declared attacks from within them. But turns out its only BS attack.
    Pray to whatever gods there are CB doesn't release a guard model with MSV.
     
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