The other day we have a little discussion I post this to see if you can help. Situation A mine in the border of a roof. First part of the order A model enters in the activation area ( remember we have to use the border of the base) The mine has to detonate or not Option 1 Yes because as you don't accomplish any of the requirements to discover your self you preserve your S2 siluete so you can explode. Option 2 No because you have to discover your self ( I don't find a rule that say that.) an as you discover your self you loose your S2 and you can't explode. Regards for your answers
Mines are SX, all measurements for trigger area, etc will be made from SX, if the mine is behind a wall then it won't be able to trigger against something on the other side. The Concealed trait hides the mine underneath an S2 marker, but the mine itself remains SX.
Follow up question. A mine is behind a low wall. Model A can see the S2, but not the base. Model A declares dicover, mine does nothing. Model A declares BS. In the resolution step Model A passes the Discover roll. Is the Mine discovered? Does the Mine enter SX, so it can't be shot at? Or since 'all at once' the mine can be shot at? THX for the answers...
You discover the mine and then any shots that were directed against the mine for a discover+shoot entire order fail and are not made. Any shots that were previously declared split against a different legal target still resolve.
I'm not totally agree. Yes you are a mine and you have SX. And also you measure the activation from the base. But also as you said you are a S2 marker so you Don loose that siluete until end of turn. I'll explain better In your sample you have a camo marker behind a little wall you use your troop and move You measure your activation area from your base and you are on it. If you saw in sample in rules of mine the activation area aren't affected on terrain. The activation area is pefecly written that you have to measure it by the base I'm not discussing that Si you are on the activation area why you loose your S2 which rule you are using. Using covered rule you don't accomplish any requirement to loose your S2 so you can explode from the top of your siluete As said in template weapons rule. Because in that instant you are a S2 camo you aren't a mine. . If you please tell me in which page I can find I have to use my original siluete I'll apeciate.
From the Mines rule (https://infinitythewiki.com/Mines): The Trigger Area of a Mine (whether it is a Camouflage Marker or a Mine Token) is the area within the radius of the Small Teardrop Template, extended out from the edge of the base of the Mine. The Trigger Area excludes any areas in Total Cover from the Blast Focus of the Small Teardrop Template (see graphic). As you can see, the template extends "from the edge of the base of the Mine." Even if the Mine was S2, its base would be SX, and it explodes from its base. You can also see that anything in total cover from the template is not in the trigger area. So if the mine's base is occluded by a wall it won't trigger, even if a trooper can see the top of its camouflage marker.
In addition there's the wording of the Concealed trait: Concealed This weapon or piece of Equipment uses the effects of the Camouflage Special Skill. Refer to the description of the weapon or Equipment for more details. Camouflage Markers concealing a weapon or a piece of Equipment have a Silhouette (S) value of 2. It does not say the weapon or equipment becomes S2, it merely says that the Marker concealing it is S2.
The phrase you said only stablishes the length of the radius. Look well the sample there is a circle behind the building making trigger area. You are confusing it with the affected area that cant ignore total cover. So if you are behind a low wall you aren't in total cover and you can be affected
Depends how close you are to the wall. If the wall is tall enough to block LoF between the base of the mine and the Target's Silhoette then it is providing Total Cover and therefore will not trigger the mine.
Using you sample the mine is behind. But you see the S2 cammo market so you have line of sight. Then you have to explode. If not will be a free discover and that won't make sense for me
That's not a rule. Trigger area is measured from the base, not the Silhouette. The Concealed trait does not change the Silhouette of the mine. Yes this means if you put a mine behind a low wall your opponent can safely discover it, but they also can't destroy the mine because they lack LoF to the Mine itself. The purpose of the Concealed trait is to disguise the mine so it's not immediately obvious, not to let the mine donate over a wall that a revealed mine could not.
The «Trigger Area» also excludes any zone that is in full coverage, the rulebook indicates it explicitly Reglamento Español; Pág. 77; Punto 12 del listado de efectos: «La Zona de Activación excluye cualquier área que se encuentre en Cobertura Total desde el Punto de Origen de la Plantilla de Lágrima Pequeña (Ver gráfico).» English Rulebook; page 76, Item 12 of the Effects list; The Trigger Area excludes any areas in Total Cover from the Blast Focus of the Small Teardrop Template (see graphic). If from the point of origin it is not possible to place the template in any way that could affect a model, the mine is not activated, because that model is in full coverage of the mine. Reglamento Español; Pág. 77; Punto 6 del listado de efectos: «La Plantilla de Lágrima Pequeña se situará de modo que afecte a la Miniatura o Marcador enemigo que causó su detonación.» English Rulebook; page 76, Item 6 of the Effects list: The Small Teardrop Template must be placed so that it affects the enemy Model or Marker that triggered the Mine. (Edit and Add: I put the texts of the Rulebook in English that at that time did not have it available in that language)
I insist you are not in full coverage because you are a S2 marker you aren't a mine. (not in that moment) And you can put a template from any point of it so I can accomplish any of the points you post. The problem is that normally the suluete of the marker is great than the mine. Yes behind the camo marker is a SX thing but in the moment of the order you are a S2 thing so you aply that suluete. When you crunch you can change from S2 to 0. Here is similar if don't be that way you can't crunch never because your troop profile says you are S2. The same way that the manual say that when you crunch you convert your siluete to S2 It says that you convert your siluete to S2 if you are a cammo marker. I wont insist further but I'm pretty sure I'm reading it okay.
En el ejemplo que has puesto, el debate de si la mina tiene Silueta S2 o SX, aunque interesante... es completamente irrelevante. El reglamento indica expresamente que la zona de activación se mide desde la peana, lo que hace que hace que discutir sobre su silueta tenga poco sentido. El reglamento también indica expresamente que la zona de activación ignora las zonas de cobertura total. Si la mina está en una zona elevada detrás de un muro, por muy alto o bajo que este sea, es físicamente imposible colocar la plantilla de manera tal que desde la peana de la mina/marcador la plantilla llegue siquiera a estar en contacto con la silueta de una miniatura que esté en un nivel de altura más bajo sin que el muro se lo impida... por lo que si no hay manera alguna de que la miniatura pueda estar en la zona de activación de la mina, la mina no se activa.
Precisamente ahí está la cuestión de por qué es tan importante el debate de la silueta. Si soy S2 si puedo poner la plantilla desde cualquier punto de ella. Esto viene expresamente detallado en el apartado de armas de plantilla. Si es así en el ejemplo más sencillo que es una mina teas un muro bajo podría detonar. Independientemente de que mida desde la base eso como dices esta bien redactado en el manual. That's why is so important the siluete. If you are S2 you can reach with the template your enemy That is clearly written on template weapon rule In the basic sample the mine behind a low wall you can explode. Dosent matter how you measure the range. That's clear and the fact is you are in range
The mine is never S2, the mine is SX. What is S2 is the camo marker. This has been said repeatedly in this post and the one in Spanish.
O no me explico bien o no me estas entendiendo, pero me temo estamos hablando de cosas distintas. Tú intentas explicarme por qué es importante saber si tiene silueta S2 o SX para resolver la detonación de la mina. Y yo te estoy explicando que las reglas impiden que llegue siquiera a detonar.
English in the English thread please. It's difficult to follow when Google's plugin doesn't register Spanish because the thread is otherwise in English :s
Yes, it is true, the translation of my message would be: Either I am not explaining myself well or you are not understanding me, but I am afraid we are talking about different things. You are trying to explain to me why it is important to know if it has an S2 or SX silhouette to solve the detonation of the mine. And I'm explaining to you that the rules prevent it from detonating.
