Crit rework proposal

Hac Tao reactive Missile Launcher wiping a fireteam is not a problem with the crit system, it is a problem with ML templates from Hidden Deployment.

If you don't like to win by revealing on ARO and wiping a team due to a crit (or equally likely just simply due to rolling high enough and the fireteam dodge rolling poorly), I'd propose you simply don't take a Hidden Deployed ML.
*the fireteam is dodging, if the team leader shoots he gets FtF while everyone else clipped will take saves if you pass you roll. Team leader can't FtF on behalf of the other members.

 

I lost a TAG to a rocket launcher, not even a crit. just a normal roll that beat all of mine, and fire damage that I roll poorly on my saves. happens.

 

If your primary issue is "A lucky crit kills my guy, I can't do anything about it" would your proposed change even fix that? It would just become "A lucky crit and failed save killed my guy..." and I feel that if we took crits out, it would become "my guy rolled five 1s and lost to a 2 and died..."

Bad luck is a part of the game. I don't adore the crit mechanic but its certainly a lot better than it was. Just not convinced that any 'fixes' proposed here would improve the game or, more specifically, address your issue with it.

 

Avatar isn’t invincible and has vulnerabilities. It can be taken down by few good dice rolls.

If you want 100% safety while advancing, try marker state troopers.

Also Avatar doesn’t trade with anything. It tries to stay alive as long as possible while killing enemy with near impunity.

 

I don't see why you should get to trade your model if you lost the face to face. Especially if that was the specific in-game example you are referring to.

Edit: Ninja'd

As an Avatar played, I can 1000% back this up. It can feel invulnerable to oppose it in some games, but I promise that other guy is sweating over every order and every possible vector for some shitter to come and brick his 118 point model lol

 

Thank you. I think that's a clearer way of explaining yourself than the previous attempts.

 

while it is possible you didn't play better, I'm not sure we can say that the avatar player didn't play worse. I'm not an avatar player, but to those who are, would you go FtF with a ML, a panzerfaust or a blitzen ? I mean, sure you have more dice, but if now is the time the ARO wins you are in trouble. It could be wiser to use your backup attacker to hunt the ML first.
edit: following Mahtamori comment i guess Avatar vs ML was the correct play, but if he did not had a doctor worm or contingency he lost the game due to placing everyeggs in one avatar basket.

 

Not really. Its just a part of the same spectrum of face to face resolution that we use for everything else. No different than just one model or the other spiking a good roll and beating the other.

IE, few days ago I had that Nisse thing from O12 move out and take a shot from my Noctifier. He rolled 4 dice on 7s vs my one on 6s, and my one dice beat his misses and low hits and he died. Unlikely but part of how face to face rolls are resolved.

 

It should be nearly impossible to lose an Avatar to a Hac Tao in just one Face to Face... Where's Doctor Worm and contingency planning?
Besides which, exemplifying this with a Hac Tao is probably not a good idea since this is an extremely expensive unit and I'm presuming it's the Missile version which is quite ineffective in the active turn.
It is quite a bit a game of risk management. Unlike most RPGs and most wargames, where you never face any risk to your own units while rolling (even a critical failure is quite mild in most gaming systems), Infinity is built so that you can keep trying with the same unit several times while you have to be aware that you risk losing it at all times as your opponent gets to fight back (ineffectually if you know what you're doing).

 

crits bring excitement, but if it did other thing instead of extra-saves (or auto-wound in previous edition) it might work. It just would be a major shift in the game. Say, if crits would give you Momentum to use later.

 

Assuming the general consensus out of your personal feelings won't help.

In N3, a Critical hit scored an auto wound on top of auto win, which was quite excessive IMO. It's now changed into an auto win + additional save, which offers another opportunity to survive. I would call it a progression.

I think uncertainty is also a part of the game. And I also think the current system is fun enough, since it feels like it's at the acceptable level of uncertainty.

 

I lost an Avatar to a single D-Charges CC Attack. Higly improbable but not impossible.
I lost an Avatar in my active turn spending 7 orders against a single Black Friar HRL. Yes, after 7 orders my Avatar died.

And in both scenarios there where no critical involved. Just unlucky rolls.

When you propose changes to Criticals, you need to remember that they apply to A LOT of cases and rolls, not only BS/CC Attacks.

Generally speaking, a Critical wins a FtF roll. Why? Because it applies to EVERY roll. Have a good time coming around how to manage a Critical Dodge with any different proposal (just to say one).

 

Before Infinity was a miniature game, it was an RPG.
Their own futuristic-type setting that some friends played with the rules of «Mutantes en la Sombra» (a Spanish RPG from the early 90s), rules that contemplated the existence of the crit.

In short, the crit, in Infinity, has been around (Edit and Add: almost unaltered ) even before it was a miniature game... and it is extremely highly unprovable that it will cease to be in the rules system, or substantially modify it, in the near (or even distant) future.

 

Using Tiger soldier to bypass combine army deployment zone defences is genius play. A better combine army player could have probably avoided this fate. I mean that’s one of the reasons why Taighas are in every list, right?

Also check out Caliban Engineers. They are way better than Dr Worm for this particular role.

 

I think in this discussion critical system and ftf mechanic have been conflated. While I also think the latter is the trademark of the game and works pretty well, I also am not a fan of criticals in general.
One way they could be downgraded without changing all the ftf system could be:
- for each critical, the player rolling it decides whether to cancel a higher roll OR to inflict an additional wound.

This would mean that LOW roll criticals would be somewhat less effective as they could be faced, sometimes, with multiple higher hits they cannot cancel. Also, when the critical lets you win a ftf you would not have, you don't also get the extra wound.
Personally, I would like it more for sure.