Have been playing this game for like 2.5 years or so but still can't understand why crit system in it is so unfair (previously it was even worse,I know). Why crit roll has priority over normal rolls and even multiple crits? For example I had a game there 3 crits and 2 normal hits were canceled by just one ARO crit. Shouldn't a crit just be an auto save?Or two auto saves. So for example it wouldn't discard another player's success. In this case both players would score their hits and have to roll their armor saves. Yeah,you still could lose your model to lucky ARO crit, but it would be a trade still.
Statistically speaking, this scenario (1+ crits on both sides) is very unlikely. I don’t think we need extra rules fo that.
It isn't about this,but in general. Worst is that crit cancels another successful rolls. Sometimes you are like hitting the wall. 1-3 good crits just can ruin your entire turn and kill important/key models even before opponent's active turn.
the whole point of it being FtF rather than Normal roll is to oppose each other's action. How can I roll a critical success and somehow take hit damages from your attacks (which you only got as normal successes) ? i also cannot agree that critical successes on both sides should simply bypass the others, doing a double-kill. It might work for a crit attack vs crit attack (they both successfully hit each other)... but how do you resolve a crit attack to a crit dodge ? you successfully dodge but also successfully get shot at ? if you don't want crit to be equals, you can revert to N2 rules. Not only critical successes cancels non-critical successes (as it should); but higher crit beats lower crit. So i crit on a 10 and you crit on a 13, your crit 13 would beat my crit 10 (while my crit 10 beats all your non-crit 1 to 12). But i prefer the all crits are equal appraoch of N3/N4. But if you want a critical 10 to not cancel a normal success of 11+... i guess you are out of luck. I don't see how to make that work unless we first start by saying that 20s are crits instead of your Target Value.
Dodge might be just and exception (it can't harm your model anyway). But this crit system is broken. 1 lucky crit cancels your 5 successes and kills your model (for example). And you don't even have a fair chance to trade your piece.
if a crit doesn't discard another player's success. are you suggesting then that a higher non-crit also don't discard another player's success ? That would be just making the whole game toss Normal rolls. Or if only crits don't cancel other success, why would a non-crit 9 cancel a 8 but a crit 10 would not cancel that 8 ?
So you feel that the reactive player has too much power over the active player in terms of resolving die rolls?
I'm not a big fan of crits either, but they're not broken. They're deliberately built into the game balance. They affect the odds of various firefights in different ways, and you need to account for the odds in your tactical decisions. Sometimes it's best not to take a fight you're odds-favoured to win, because the value of success isn't high enough to balance the small risk of a crit. Sometimes it's best to use a high-ARM multi-wound model with lower f2f odds, rather than a flimsy model with better f2f odds, to mitigate the risk of crits. That's the game.
There is 0,7% chance for 3x (1+ crit) and 1x (1 crit) to crit during same f2f roll. So if you do 1000 f2f rolls you get 7 such results. Even with two HMG total reaction bots shooting at each other, the change is only 3,6%. Do we really need special rule for this situation?
i know it is an example, but at least you just take an extra save rather than auto-wound a critical ARO, that did suck. As for trading, the game is not set as a trade your models by shooting each other. The only trading you can do is Berserk and DTW. I love this game for your ARO being able to oppose the active player shooting, instead of just shooting each other then both players makes ARM rolls as everything is Normal roll, and you are just looking at trading models.
Crit would be just an additional auto hit/auto save. Just like in most adequate RPG it is. Normal hit=normal save per weapon profile. Crit just additional save roll.
Clearly yes. Because 1 crit can cancel even 5 crits. And if you as an active player has no crits you'll have to roll armor saves. I mean sometimes I roll a crit on Hac Tao missile launcher ARO. But this isn't fun, disgusting for me to be fair. I might delete an entire TAG/fireteam with no opposition.
Right, so every normal hit cause a normal save and every crit hit cause 2 normal saves. So by the end of turn 1 everything is dead. You walk out with your MI HMG, you shoot B4 at a line trooper who ARO back. You both roll normal hits (or you both crit), therefore you both roll normal saves, and you both die. Every action you take as the active player is exposing your expensive model to die making his ARO normal save (or 2 saves in cases of ARO crits). That would severely impact the balance of the game. Might as well make it a turn-base move+shoot with all your guys then the other player moves+shoot with all his guys, back and forth. But then your models would need to be made a bit more resilient to keep the game interesting as right now they are 1 failed armor save away from dying.
So on your reactive turn, when you need to roll one die on a 5 and your opponent is rolling four dice for 15's this is an acceptable and fun situation?
Yes but if you roll for example 8,11,11,12 and he rolls 8 (non crit) you'll have to make him 3 saves. If he rolls 9 (crit) you'll have to roll 2 saves. And he'll have to make 3. Only in this case.
Just re-read that I wrote. If my Hac Tao rolls 5 and just by virtue of a critical hit beats his 5 dice on 15 how it is a fun and acceptable situation?I don't have any interest in winning any game like this.
ok i understand better. so you want higher beats lower, but apply it strictly. ie. a crit 9 would only cancels what a 9 would have cancelled. And then in addition to that dice comparison, every crit adds an unblockable save to do.
Please re-read what I wrote. The question is if this is a fun situation on your reactive turn. I understand you prefer it when it's your active turn.
I wasn’t expecting that someone would complain that reactive player has too much power in N4. Then again, there are probably people out there who loved smoke stomping before the latest faq.
in the cases of double-criting "I had a game there 3 crits and 2 normal hits were canceled by just one ARO crit." I think i'd still prefer a double-crit nothing happen to a double-crit we both (potentially) lose our guys. As the active player, it just sucks to lose my guy, and would rather i spend a new order to attempt to kill you again. As the reactive player, the odds are i take a bunch of normal save while the active only take a my crit save (2 arm roll)... i don't like those odds compared to "nothing happen" as in your system I'm more likely to die and the survive rather than we both die; so we might as well both survive. in the case of ARO crits, well I guess it would depends on which side I am. If for example i hit 3 high normal and the ARO is 1 low-crit. As the active player, you propose that the defender takes 3 ARM saves and I take 2, rather than currently where I take 2 saves. It would be a nice boost. As the reactive player, on the other hand, I would prefer the current system where, when looking at low BS due to the active players MOD, at least i have 1-in-20 to get a crit in and save myself from taking 3 saves. Considering i'm 50% active and 50% reactive in my games. i prefer the current system. in the case of non-ARO crits, going for B4, 3 hits one being a crit. As the reactive player, both system is a wash, the active player is looking for a higher Target than I, so his crit will always cancel my low-BS rolls. As the active player, both system is a wash, I'm looking for a higher Target than the defender, so my crit will always cancel his low-BS rolls anyway. Now in the case of active player having a low Target and the reactive player looking at a high Target hum... i'm not sure why the active player decided it was wise to spend that Order. So I won't look at what system would feel better.
