So, I'm going to have to play a game of Panic Room with SAA in the next few weeks. I say "have to" because SAA seems rather ill-suited to the mission, at least to my inexperienced eye. SAA is my secondary faction so I don't have all that much experience with it. Plus, my experience is further limited by my self-imposed "a TAG in every list" rule. TAGs seem so awful in Panic Room that I'm considering breaking my rule, but even without a TAG, I'm not sure where to start on a Panic Room list. SAA is so focused on defense that I'm not sure what to push up into the room. Best I can come up with is an Orc core, but then if I also want anything else good in the list, it starts looking like limited insertion. Here is a first attempt: Panic room?? ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 1 ORC Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 37) ORC Feuerbach / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 38) ORC Boarding Shotgun ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 30) ORC (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 34) ORC (Lieutenant) MULTI Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 31) AGNES Submachine Gun, Nanopulser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14) REGULAR (Triangulated Fire, Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13) BAGH-MARI (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper Rifle, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29) SCYLLA (Hacker, Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity (+2 Damage)]) Boarding Shotgun, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 41) 2X DEVABOT CHARYBDIS Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 14) KNIGHT OF MONTESA MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 31) 5.5 SWC | 298 Points Open in Infinity Army Does anyone have any suggestions and/or better ideas?
I haven't played neither Panic room nor SAA, but here is my two cents. I think TAGs and REMs are not that bad in Panic room since the Biotechvore area is slow and the gate to the room is wide. Scylla looks great since she and her two bots can dominate the ZO. Knight of Montesa looks also good with Impetuous order and fast move value. Maybe GdA can help Scylla or Montesa get into the ZO with eclipse grenade in his Auxbot, but I'm not sure they are worth it. I'm not sure which fireteam to take, but the fireteam don't have to rush out in turn 1 because about 40% of your deployment zone is still safe until turn 2 ends. I don't know this list works or not, but just a brainstorming. Shock Army of Acontecimento ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 GUARDA DE ASSALTO MULTI Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 40) AUXBOT Light Shotgun, Eclipse Grenade Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 5) SCYLLA (Hacker, Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity (+2 Damage)]) Boarding Shotgun, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 41) 2X DEVABOT CHARYBDIS Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 14) REGULAR (Triangulated Fire, Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13) REGULAR (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) ORC Feuerbach / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 38) REGULAR (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10) AGNES Submachine Gun, Nanopulser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14) BAGH-MARI (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper Rifle, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29) BAGH-MARI (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, Flash Pulse, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 21) BAGH-MARI Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 28) GROUP 2 4 MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) BULLETEER Spitfire / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 23) 6 SWC | 298 Points Open in Infinity Army
An orc pain train for a room scenario isn't a bad idea, but I would probably drop either the feuerbach or HMG to a regular orc to free up points for other options. Its doubling up on range band in a very narrow focus. I would consider either going HMG to suppress or feuerbacj just to clear issues.
The problem with a TAG is that it's so easy to kill once its in the objective room. CC specialists, hackers, and e/m weaponry are all things the opponent will already be putting in the room anyway. Orcs have the same vulnerabilities, but... there's 5 of them I guess? The hope is that the opponent can't chew through them all. I don't love it, I just haven't come up with a better idea. You're right that REMs are fine. Same vulnerabilities as the TAGs and HI, but cheaper and faster. I should consider the Peacemaker for sure (EDIT: Bulleteer, not Peacemaker). Scylla seems automatic. Hack anything that gets in the room, and stick flamer bots in the room. Montesa I like in any mission with deployment restrictions - he's the next best thing to an infiltrator since he gets up the board so fast. And CC experts are important to have in objective room missions. Guarda is definitely worth considering, the shotgun bot in the room would be nice, although I don't like throwing eclipse on 10s. My theory was to punch through AROs with the linked Orc rather than smoking them up. But, overall, I think my issue is that none of these options lead to a coherent plan or theme for the list. Like, they're all bodies I can throw at the objective room, but they all do similar things and don't complement each other particularly well. I'm used to a list where for example Dragao removes AROs, Dart clears the midfield, Montesa does the objectives... everything has a role. I think that's what's throwing me on Panic Room, I can't figure out what roles I should be filling. My theory was that if I go second, the Feuerbach is on ARO duty and stands a good chance of going down. If it does, Agnes joins the link and I still have the HMG with full bonus to fight opposing AROs. But I do worry about the points concentration. Maybe ditch the HMG and stop AROs with eclipse grenades after all :-)
Here's a list that posits a linked Orc Feuerbach as the only long-range weapon in both active and reactive turns. If he goes down, I have to outmaneuver opposing AROs (at least there objective room casts a big shadow), or block them with Eclipse: Panic Room Salad ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10) REGULAR (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10) REGULAR (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Grenade Launcher ( | FastPanda) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 16) REGULAR (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) REGULAR (Triangulated Fire, Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13) ORC Feuerbach / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 38) PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 20) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 4) BULLETEER Spitfire / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 23) GUARDA DE ASSALTO MULTI Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 40) AUXBOT Light Shotgun, Eclipse Grenade Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 5) GROUP 2 6 1 CLIPPER DRONBOT Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16) SCYLLA (Hacker, Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity (+2 Damage)]) Boarding Shotgun, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 41) 2X DEVABOT CHARYBDIS Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 14) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) MULEBOT (Hacker, EVO Hacking Device) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 15) KNIGHT OF MONTESA MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 31) 6 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army Still kind of a kitchen sink list. The Guarda, Bulleteer, Peacemaker, and Montesa all seem good, but don't fit together particularly well. At least there are lots of auxbots to throw into the room.
Alright, I think I'm happy with this: Panic Room finally ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 ORC Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 37) REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10) REGULAR (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10) REGULAR (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) BAGH-MARI (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper Rifle, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29) REGULAR (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Grenade Launcher ( | FastPanda) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 16) CLIPPER DRONBOT Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16) KNIGHT OF MONTESA MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 31) PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 20) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 4) GROUP 2 6 1 REGULAR (Triangulated Fire, Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13) SCYLLA (Hacker, Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity (+2 Damage)]) Boarding Shotgun, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 41) 2X DEVABOT CHARYBDIS Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 14) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) KNIGHT OF MONTESA MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 31) PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 20) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 4) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army It's still got the problem of too much SWC concentrated in one fireteam, but the points are a lot more spread out. Linked Orc HMG is my TAG analogue, for defense there's the linked sniper, mines, and auxbots.
@QueensGambit Some small nitpicks, I'd reshuffle the groups a bit. Swap Scylla with the Clipper or something. To reflect Order pools/vs how order hungry each of them are. Secondary thought would be to make the Orc HMG the Lt. You're likely not using him as an ARO piece he is a little bit more durable vs Impersonators/Spec Fire/Pitcher into Missile and uses the Lt Order better. But it might come back to bite you if your opponent kills him anyway, prioritizing removing your HMG over your Lt and gets both in the proccess, so it's not clearly better. Alternating the list a bit I'd consider swapping Orc and Bagh into Orc Feuerbach and Bagh HMG instead. FB gives you ranged anti TAG punch which is currently a bit dicey + works better with the Paramedic (PH14) since you're lacking a Doc. The Bagh HMG has a better FTF most of the time for Active turn. You're losing the Mine and the Orc as 3rd Lt candidate to make it harder to guess, but I'd say it's worth it. Baghs as ARO pieces can be a bit wonky without Shock Immunity and up to 4 points worse FTF than Kamau/Bolt Sniper. Are you married to both of the Montesas? Dart gives you a sturdy and annoying Marker as well as forward Mines to put inside the room. Random bit of musing - I quite like the C+ Orc/Dart for objective rooms, going inside, climbing up the inner wall to get out of CC range and posing a problem with Supressive Fire (depending on the piece of terrain used for the Objective room). Downward facing SF also basically gives you a free 360 visor covering all approaches to the Objective Room. Dart gets a MSV1 on top to ignore Smoke or can be on a wall in Camo if the room isn't tall enough to make CC impossible, but you still get the free 360 Visor effect.
Hello, I really like the last list you posted @QueensGambit with both montesas. I have to say too that the advices given by @Teslarod are worthy, Dart is an amazing piece, but if I let me drop here a little is to bring other options. Spoiler: Another Option ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GRUPO 1 10 1 MAQUINISTA SAA (Mimetismo [-3], Terreno [Total]) Fusil Combi, Cargas-D ( | GizmoKit) / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 18) AGNES Subfusil, Nanopulser / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 14) BAGH-MARI (Observador de Artillería) Escopeta de Abordaje, Pulso Flash, Cargas-D / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 21) DRAKIOS Red Fury, Lanzallamas Ligero / Pistola, Arma CC Shock. (1 | 45) 2X DEVABOT KYDOIMOS Lanzallamas Pesado / Arma CC PARA(-3). (0 | 12) CABALLERO DE MONTESA Escopeta de Abordaje / Pistola, Arma CC DA. (0 | 29) BAGH-MARI Ametralladora / Pistola, Arma CC. (1.5 | 28) REGULAR (Teniente) Fusil Combi / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 10) REGULAR (Sanitario) Fusil Combi ( | MediKit) / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 12) REGULAR (Ataque Triangulado, Minador, Sensor) Fusil Combi, Minas Shock / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 13) REGULAR (Ataque Triangulado, Minador, Sensor) Fusil Combi, Minas Shock / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 13) GRUPO 2 5 1 GUARDA DE ASSALTO Spitfire, Lanzallamas Pesado, Cargas-D / Pistola, Arma CC Shock. (1.5 | 45) AUXBOT Escopeta Ligera, Lanzagranadas Eclipse / Arma CC PARA(-3). (0 | 5) CABALLERO DE MONTESA (Sanitario) Escopeta de Abordaje ( | MediKit) / Pistola, Arma CC DA. (0 | 31) FUGAZI DRONBOT Pulso Flash / Arma CC PARA(-3). (0 | 7) FUGAZI DRONBOT Pulso Flash / Arma CC PARA(-3). (0 | 7) FUGAZI DRONBOT Pulso Flash / Arma CC PARA(-3). (0 | 7) 4 CAP | 300 Puntos Abrir en Infinity Army Panic Room can be score using nº2, a thing the N4 baghmari's bring by default. The characters can too score in this manner. While I find Scylla intersting sometimes, I thing in this case it will be "Drakios" who can do a better perfomance. The panic room with the "long infinite" walls provide a "cut LoF" piece, so we haven't to place as many long range weapons as in a regular table. So... Nagas or Dart, deploying to 9 or 10 aren't great, as you said before, "montesas" can do the "infiltration work". I'am 100% agree with that. So... What is the idea behind this "list"... Fireteam Core with Lt, Paramedic, Baghmari HMG and 2 minelayers. If we can we place the core in a place where it will be unaffected by the biotec-area in the first turn. It will be probably our "last piece" to put inside the "room", the job of the fireteam will mainly "pool orders" and own DZ defense. Montesas, one of them can go really quickly and clean the room or remain there and fight for be the last man standing. The other will be "place" with the impetuous order safe from the "bio-area", waiting for the best moment to "attack". Drakios it will be ussefull if our enemy do use of troups with visors, if for example we confront Bakunin we could find a "riot girls" core triying to get inside the "panic" room. The both rems can block easily doors and drakios has a good chance to "fight" for the "room". Still he is a character". The "haris" "baghmari FO" machinist and agnes can reach the room with no heavy orders expediture, and thanks to the template weapons and the mimemints can survive with a little fortun one turn inside the panic room. Baghmari is number 2 and agnes a character, so you can score for this kind of troup and too for "dominate" the area. Guardia the Assalto, if the enemy don't have hackers which can easyly put down (inmobilizing or isolating) he can "fight" for the room, place this guy in suppressive fire and wait for the enemy's disspair. Fugazzis... Well, they probably die, but if some of this little guys manage to "stunn" some enemy troup before gets inside the armory when we have troups on our own... probably we can kill whatever go inside. And yes, we can use then to block the doors. The enemy should waste orders "killing" them, because they have 2 unncounscious states XD. Regular minelayers can deploy a lot of mines and too reveal any "camo marker" the enemy wants to left inside the armoury. If play with this list if I can I will choose go second. First Turn: I will put down any ARO piece with baghmari hmg, drakios or guarda, and later will launch one of the montesas. Or both if things are really clear. Second Turn: I will try with the "haris" and/or the guarda. Third Turn: I will place all my hopes in the fireteam core... If drakios would be alive for this moment... Maybe I will place the aleph troup and the fireteam will provide covert. About the Guarda de Assalto, the "auxbot" has a non realiable smoke launcher, but while the guarda is shooting to "something" in the distance, the little bot can try to launch smoke in some place where could be useful. It is like I'am using the "smoke" from the guarda right now, not as a "battle plan" but a "big maybe" XD I wish you best of lucks. GO SAA! :D
Ended up taking teslarod's advice to use the Orc Feuerbach, and played this: Too much mass ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10) REGULAR (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10) REGULAR (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) REGULAR (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Grenade Launcher ( | FastPanda) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 16) ORC Feuerbach / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 38) BAGH-MARI Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 28) KNIGHT OF MONTESA MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 31) PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 20) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 4) SCYLLA (Hacker, Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity (+2 Damage)]) Boarding Shotgun, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 41) 2X DEVABOT CHARYBDIS Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 14) GROUP 2 6 1 REGULAR (Triangulated Fire, Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13) CLIPPER DRONBOT Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) KNIGHT OF MONTESA MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 31) PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 20) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 4) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army The Orc Feuerbach was definitely a good pick. Faced off against a Shang Ji AP HMG in a haris, and the Orc was actually slightly odds-favoured to win. Unfortunately, the Orc went straight to dead (4% odds). This game was a good lesson on Panic Room: what I didn't take into account was the terrible deployment rules for whoever goes second. Having so many bodies in the list, and so many large silhouettes, turned out to be a big disadvantage. You basically have to deploy most of your army between 4" and 8" from the table edge (and pay extra orders for anyone you deploy at 0-4"). I had so much crammed into that narrow band that they were easy pickings for an alpha strike once the Orc was gone. I think next time I might try a limited insertion list for Panic Room. Should be a lot less vulnerable to an alpha, and be able to pack concentrated armor into the room.
How did you go? some news, how about the list that your show?, I just got the tikbalang that I was missing, I have Scylla and Teucer, any recommendation for someone who starts in SAA?
I played Panic Room with SAA this last friday. I went in limited insertion with duo of Tikbalang, Evo drone, Bulleteer, Guarda, 2 engineers/gizmokit, Rao (in haris/duo depending on the mood), hacker and another cheap order against Nomads. I won but it was intense: clearly, packing combat drones and TAGs in it is really playable, just hard to micro-manage everything, specially if TAG/attack REM are done and you need to heal them up.
