Greetings. So, while im improving my skills of playing HB and running Al-Djabel with boys, I managed to finally convince my friend to start playing with me and decide on his army. After reading, treads on how to use Tags and report of @daboarder where he used double Jotum list we made up a following list. Thanks to him a lot for material and inspiration. Seraph 2 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 2 2 SERAPH Heavy Machine Gun, Nanopulser(+1B) / EXP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 71) CRABBOT Flash Pulse / CC Weapon. (0 | 0) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse ( ) / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) GROUP 2 8 1 1 SERAPH Spitfire, Nanopulser / EXP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 74) CRABBOT Flash Pulse / CC Weapon. (0 | 0) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 4) KNIGHT COMMANDER (Lieutenant [+1 Order]) Combi Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 28) MULEBOT (Hacker, EVO Hacking Device) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 15) MULEBOT (Deactivator, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8) MACHINIST MO (Immunity [Shock], Religious Troop) Combi Rifle, D-Charges, AP Mines ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 17) ORDER SERGEANT (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 18) ORDER SERGEANT (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 18) PALBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) PALBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) TEUTONIC KNIGHT (NCO) Spitfire / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 31) 6 SWC | 296 Points Open in Infinity Army Our idea is that 2 of our Serapghs will be playing tag with opponent. HMG Seraph will be main fire support and long range aro piece. Spitfire Seraph is going to advance back and forth stripping our opponent orders(also, with a periferal auxbot If i am not mistaken it can have 2 dice in CC if both models in base to base contact with enemy). Machinist, Rems, Hackers will be working on assisting Seraph team. Struggle. 1) Knight Commander is not a strong liutenant, so we decided to put there Teutonic Spitfire as one more threat. I think with 2 additional NCO orders and him being impetuous he can move quiet fast along the board providing additional threat. 2) Otherwise, If i am not mistaken we can take out NCO Teutonic Knight and add 3 crossiers. Then we can make a core of crossiers adding either Order Sergeants or Machinist or Knight commander. 3) Lastly, we are new players and making a lot of mistakes but I feel really great about what we came up with. What are your thoughts on the list. Maybe advices and ideas we can implement to finish this project and have a strong and fun army to play. Thank you !
Caveat: Lists are more of an art than a science. There are some good problems you can ask how your list handles, but a double tag list does more smashing than being prepared for a multitude of threats. What comes next is just my impressions and I don't have as much background on this as the Daboarder posts you read. Groups: Unless you make closer to 15 orders, I'd try to consolidate both tags in one group. That comes with the flexibility to spend orders on the better positioned tag, or to do coordinated orders. Yes, the aux bot prevents it's controller from doing coordinated orders when alive and in coherency, but if it dies (trades) you pick up the option to put both in suppressive at once. Tags: If you want the thematic Seraph + Seraph combo, then go for it. That said in MO I would swap the HMG Seraph for the AP HMG Tik which can bust armor and sports mimetism. However, unless you are getting great value out of the link teams, then I'd probably look at vanilla which gives you more Tag options. I'd recommend swapping them up each game to get a better feeling on what their differences bring. Vanilla vs MO: Vanilla has a slew of other useful profiles including the monstrucker and the karhu who make better engineers. Keep in mind the engineer can't be in a link when it has active palbots, so you either link them and rely on the burst two gizmokit (since you lack mobility to get close) or you give them 2 pal bots to keep up with the tags. If you go MO I would probably try to make a 5 man link with the Heavy Rocket Black Friar as an aro to get the value out of being a sectorial. There's probably other 5 man links you can try, but the point would be you gave up some flexiblity to get those good link bonuses you should take advantage of them. Do expect your core link to sit around because you have tags to play with, so it's capacity as an ARO is probably more important than as an active piece.
My concern is that right now the list has very little to deal with enemy hackers, which is the biggest danger to TAG based lists. In MO, the Trinity options are limited and are too expensive to fit in a dual tag list. You friend might get frustrated if they run into a list with a good hackers and their expensive TAGs are used to destroy each other. If they wish to run MO, they might want to just run a single Seraph with a knight of Santiango or DeFersen support. Vanilla PanO probably provides more tools to run a dual TAG list.
Thank for everyone replies. However, yeah the idea of a following list is to run Double Seraph combo as an MO. I am also thinking that from one perspective this list is vulnerable to hackers. We got a couple of hackers here and a repeater. On the other side, unless opponent will hide everything deeper than deep in his DZ we have all chances on taking out biggest threats if 1 turn is ours. If we lose turn one, we gotta hide and and hope our ARO rolls will be more than average. Double Seraph is aesthetically satisfying. Not to mention spitfire Seraph can wreck other things in melee with 2 burst for peripheral and EXP CC weapon. I think NCO Teuton Spitfire can be deleted adn instead 3 crossiers can be welcome aboard. That will bring this list to 2 liutenant orders 12 regular and 3 irregular. But we will lose NCO piece. Sending both Seraphs in one group I think is a good idea. Personally, every tabletop game I played I always played Alpha Strike armies.Go in all-in turn 1. I picked up HB as my main Infinity army but everytime I see McMurrough Al-Djabel within me burns with jealousy. lol
Take a glance at the knight of the holy Sepulchre he fills a similar role and theme to hmg seraph, but then if you want a Double Seraph MO list then definitely do it! If both Seraphs are in 1 group, then the "orders" that matter are the 10 for that. Group 2 is for disposable aros who don't need to move or support like EVO hackers that only need 1 order. In a 15 regular order list you might get something useful out of group two, but you're probably not making 15 regulars and that's fine because you have those tactical awareness orders right where you want them. If you don't take a NCO then don't take the Knight commander (+1 order). Your knight commander does not want to use his lt order(s) as it says "kill me please". I think DaBoarder had a similar hacking defense plan that did work for him. He used the coordinated orders on cheap hackers to oblivion through enemy repeaters, and relied on bts, evo firewall support and being in his own hacking area to deal with possession. Engineers repaired isolation or carbonite, though Jotums specialize towards this with ARM/BTS so he would get a little more mileage but you can apply your list that way. I do love me some De-Fersen, and you can make him or the santiago fit, but that's a more aggressive tact because those need to used as active pieces to win hacking fights. You wanted to spend your orders on the Tags anyways. Have a look at Dart. She's a good problem solver for hacking nets, War cors and tech bees in group 2 can look out for AD and other surprises, Trin snipers are great, and do consider the heavy rocket launcher black friar. That said, you won't fit everything you want. On playing. Your HMG Seraph is your solution to all long AROS. Don't let it get outranged by a linked or mim -6 missile launcher. It will suck to shoot into linked/ mimetism -6 gunfighters but if you have an engineer you can take a loss or two so the pain is the orders. Or see if you can bypass them to drop an aux bot template. With your alpha you want to take orders and active pieces. Usually group 1 orders because if his link/primary gunfighter still has 10 orders then killing 5 from group 2 isn't that great. You don't have to win in turn1, so when you are down to 3 or so orders start moving to defense. Most factions have a heavy AP weapon that can and will burn through your tags. If you didn't kill it, your goal is for that heavy weapon to have to walk several orders before it has to shoot against you while you are in suppressive fire. Be careful of camo tokens, mines won't do much be even a seraph has to think twice against things like an SAS with D charges, unless you bring a visor, your auxbot spitfire combo is your best discover play because both get a roll. Good luck!
