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Haqqislam Limited Insertion Help

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Evilized, Jun 13, 2021.

  1. Evilized

    Evilized Member

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    Good day,

    Me and my friend recently got our hands on the Coldfront starting box. Played it in every way possible and decided to dive deeper into Infinity Universe. I decided to play Haqqislam especially becuase of Al-Djabel mini and Fiday. I prefer limited insertion low model count. So here is my Hassasin bahram List. Please give me your advices on how to improve it. I will be glad to recieve some help.


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    AL-DJABEL Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 33)
    FIDAY Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    FIDAY Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
    ASAWIRA (Lieutenant) AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
    ASAWIRA (Doctor [+3]) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
    ASAWIRA AP Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
    RAGIK (Hacker, Hacking Device) Rifle, Light Shotgun ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 31)
    RAGIK Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 33)
    LASIQ (BS Attack [+1 Dam]) VIRAL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27)
    BARID (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity (-3)]) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)

    5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Pure Hassasins. In my head, the way it will work is really simple. Lasiq deployed somewhere in my deployment zone as an ARO piece( or i can even hide this unit not to get rekt if i lose 1 term). Asawira Haris moves forwards, followed by Barid. Al-Djabel, Fidays being sneaky beaky and walking to remove AROs or cheerleaders. Ragiks drop to strip some orders from my opponent as well or maybe they could try to wipe something juicy.

    10 Orders Haqq
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    AL-DJABEL Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 33)
    MUKHTAR (Multispectral Visor L2) Red Fury, Nanopulser(+1B) ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 36)
    LASIQ (BS Attack [+1 Dam]) VIRAL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27)
    ASAWIRA (Lieutenant) AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
    FIDAY Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    BARID (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity (-3)]) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    AZRA'IL AP Heavy Machine Gun / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 40)
    ASAWIRA (Doctor [+3]) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
    RAGIK (Hacker, Hacking Device) Rifle, Light Shotgun ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 31)
    RAFIQ REMOTE Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 14)

    6 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    P.S. When I was playing around with army builder I found out that I can get a 6 SWC list with vanilla Haqqislam by tweaking the list. I dont know if it is going to work. Asawira duo, Al Djabel, Fiday, Ragiks as my attack pieces while Azrail and Lasiq provide fire support. I wonder if it might work.
     
  2. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Welcome to Haqq! A few notes:

    - Haqq isn't well-suited to limited insertion. You can still play it if you enjoy it! Just be aware that you're taking a significant handicap. If you enjoy the way limited insertion plays, consider just putting 5 Daylamis in group 2. Group 1 will still play like limited insertion, and you can ignore group 2 in your active turn if you want to. But in your reactive turn, your opponent will have to fight through five camo panzerfausts to get at your important models.

    - Drop troops are probably a bad idea in a limited insertion list. You just don't have enough orders to keep any off the table. So I wouldn't recommend the Ragiks. Two Ragiks is definitely too many.

    - A Lasiq sniper by herself won't do much to slow down your opponent. If you want to use her as an ARO piece, she needs to at least be in a haris to get burst 2 in your reactive turn.

    - Asawiras are awesome.

    - Your second list isn't legal, since Asawiras are AVA 1 in vanilla Haqq. Even if they were AVA 2, you couldn't put them in a duo because fireteams are only allowed in sectorials.
     
  3. Evilized

    Evilized Member

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    Thank you a lor for your comments. I didn't notice that my Vanilla build is invalid !!! Now I know
    I have a question about Hassasin Bahram List. I want to keep Al-Djabel, 2 Fidays and 3 Asawiras and add 5 Daylami as you advised. It is going to be 227 points. So I have not much points left. I might try to fit a haris of Lasiq/Miyubs or Lasiq/Govads. Or maybe there is a better option.

    Also, for Vannilla Haqqislam list if I remove Asawira Doc and Lasiq and add 5 daylami I will be at 277points. 8 orders in group 1 and 5 irregular orders in group 2. 23 points left and I am thinking if I should at a couple cheerleaders into group 1. What are your thoughts? Thanky you a lot.
     
  4. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    233 points - the 8-point Daylamis are the good ones :-)

    With all those Fidays eating up your points, it might be a little ambitious to try to fit two fireteams in there as well. Here's a one-fireteam option where I'm trying to keep your original design with the Daylamis added:

    Limited insertion + Daylamis
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    FIDAY Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    FIDAY Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
    AL-DJABEL Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 33)

    ASAWIRA (Lieutenant) AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
    ASAWIRA (Doctor [+3]) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
    ASAWIRA AP Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
    GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)
    BARID (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity (-3)]) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)

    FARZAN (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    2.5 SWC | 298 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    I've upgraded your Asawira haris to a Core by adding the Ghulam and Barid (technically it's a Ghulam Core and the Asawiras are in it as wildcards). This gives you extra bonuses to help protect the Asawiras in your reactive turn. The +3 BS also helps the Asawira Spitfire in the active turn. The Ghulam gives them an extra order with NCO, which is particularly useful in a limited insertion list, and also brings smoke to help maneuver the team around the table.

    Plus, your plan was to move up the Asawiras and then the Barid, now you can move them all up at once.

    To fill the last space, I've added a Farzan CoC to protect you from Loss of Lieutenant, since your Lieutenant is going to be out fighting on the frontlines and will often die. There are other options that could also fill that space - perhaps a Farzan minelayer or a Shujae.
     
  5. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    @QueensGambit has it handled. Daylami's are great and they definitely make a wonderful side/delay group. The list that was proposed looks like it will be a fun one to play. HB is now in N4 one of the most flexible armies and has lots of options. As you expand, you might wish to look into Muyib's as they are great fireteam glue with Number 2 and Wildcard. They also have some amazing profiles and can add new tools into your forces.

    EDIT:

    Minor Suggestion:

    Minor Change
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    FIDAY Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    FIDAY Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
    AL-DJABEL Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 33)
    ASAWIRA (Lieutenant) AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
    ASAWIRA (Doctor [+3]) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
    MUYIB (Tactical Awareness, X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 25)
    GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)
    BARID (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity (-3)]) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    FARZAN (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    RAFIQ REMOTE Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 14)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    4 SWC | 298 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    That gives you an extra order, a Heavy Rocket Launcher, and the amazing Rafiq to help sensor camo tokens.
     
    #5 Brokenwolf, Jun 13, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
  6. Danger Rose

    Danger Rose The Wrecking Belles

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    This is interesting. I'm playing Ramah Task Force and I can feel the handicap with Limited Insertion. Unfortunately, I don't get Daylami, so I have to be a bit creative to reach 15 orders.
     
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  7. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I second making a 10 order group and a passive 5 order group. This will give you the playstyle of a "Limited Insertion" list, without most of the downside.

    Limited Insertion doesn't exist anymore in N4, so there is no upside to running a lower model count. Your list power will be significantly impacted by cutting 1/3 of the potential order pool.
     
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  8. Evilized

    Evilized Member

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    Thanks to everyone for your advices.

    I managed to have a game with this list yestarday against tunguska hollow men pain train and to be honest I had a lot of fun. Al-Djabel just got his points back. DA CC Fiday douled his cost and another Fiday got borading shotgunned by spektr. AP Spitfire got rekt because I rolled really poorly. Doctor Asawira rolled bad too(Luck wasnt on my side at all lol). Daylami were a nice tool which helped me to be annoying in my deploying zone.

    I feel like Al-Djabel isn't as good as lore describes him. However, probably it is just my rolls. I've heard in N3 he was stronger.

    P.S. Now I will wait till my friend finally decides what he wants to play. But he is japanese so I am pretty sure he is gonna get a couple of tags to himself and will play Pano. Unless I convince him to play TAK Kazak Veteran pain train or MO(since we will swap aries sometimes and I really like Seraph xD).
     
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  9. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Remember they have Infiltration, so they can be annoying outside your deployment zone too :-)

    Very true. He's quite a bit stronger than a regular Fiday at killing high-ARM targets in CC, but other than that he's only marginally better than a regular Fiday. Keep in mind that if you decide not to use him, you can still use his model as a proxy for a regular Fiday :-)
     
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  10. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    First, welcome!! :D

    Others said a lot of good advices so far. I'm agree with the "topic" haquisslam isn't made for Limited Insertion, not at least if the enemy it isn't playing Limited insertion as well, but they are a few list which should work properly in LI.

    Right now hassasin barahm is relatively easier to play as the others haquisslam sectorials or even vainilla

    Daylamis are right now, the panzerfaust+shotgun+camo+infiltration maybe the best ARO piece in haquisslam and hassasin, I feel a little naked if I have at least 2 of them in my lists.

    About Al-Djabel... First, becareful with the lore, most of the time it is not a perfect match with the "profiles", so don't take as a guide to play. Second, back in N3 it wasn't better or worse, but different. Right now isn't so good as he was in CC, but is far better shooting. With continuous damage he can do a lot of harm even in "ARO". A shoot from behind + surprise attack + template from the Light Shotgun probably will make your enemies feel a little panic while rolling the dodge actions and the salvations.

    I don't see muyibs in your lists. In vainilla probably not, but in hassasin they are too a great tool to try.

    Best regards
     
  11. Evilized

    Evilized Member

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    Thanks to everyone for your advices and intakes. I managed to get one more game in with this list. I've played against TAK and really enjoyed it. This time Al-Djabel and Fidays went all outs and done more than Asawiras to be honest stripping orders from my opponent. I think I also got better at using Fiday. One more thing it is good to know that even if Fidays die I have Asawiras to finish the job and a bunch of Daylami waiting to be as annoying AROs as possible.

    I definentely need to try Miyubs looking at what they offer in army builder I am sure they can do things. Also, I wish our light tag would have a miniature.
     
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  12. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    I my humble opinion Asawiras are right now one of the best HI in the entire game, however they aren't unstoppable I'm afraid of :D Fiday (character included) could be a little tricky to use but they bring a lot of sweet satisfaction (or bitter dissapointment) in "Game".

    If you are still trying to go into the path of IL I thik you should try the Ayar (an amazing troup for games to 200 or 400 points, and IL in 300 matches).


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2
    LEILA SHARIF (Hacker) Shock Marksman Rifle, E/M Mines, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 20)
    MUYIB (Tactical Awareness, X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 25)
    MUYIB (Lieutenant) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 24)
    MUYIB (Tactical Awareness, X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 25)
    MUYIB (Minelayer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust, E/M Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    MUYIB (Minelayer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust, Viral Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
    ASAWIRA (Doctor [+3]) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
    ASAWIRA AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
    ÁYYĀR Shock Marksman Rifle / Viral Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 40)
    ÁYYĀR Rifle, E/Mitter, Panzerfaust / Viral Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 37)

    5.5 SWC | 297 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    This one is an adaptation of my LI list in N3.

    As you can see is hard to put only 10 models in table, but still you can do it and have some punch.


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    SALADIN (Lieutenant [+1 Command Token]) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser(+1B) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
    HORTLAK (Chain of Command) Submachine Gun, Blitzen / Viral Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
    AZRA'IL AP Heavy Machine Gun / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 40)
    AZRA'IL AP Heavy Machine Gun / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 40)
    MUYIB (Minelayer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust, E/M Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    DJANBAZAN Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 34)
    NASMAT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    ROUHANI Submachine Gun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 21)
    AL-DJABEL Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 33)
    LEILA SHARIF (Hacker) Shock Marksman Rifle, E/M Mines, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 20)
    NASMAT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    ZULEYKA Light Flamethrower(+1B), Smoke Grenades / Breaker Pistol(+2B), EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 11)

    4.5 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    As you can see Haquisslam can put in the table decent LI Lists, but it isn't the best they can do :) At least if the Tournament or the match don't apply this restriction for every player.

    When playing Limited Insertion and not a mod for every player, probably you want to put in game some TAG, "Maggie" could do a decent job and probably you can play Maggie and Shaskun in the same list.

    I want too the Shasku miniature soon :) But I think I wish the Nadhir comes first :)
     
  13. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    I'm going to disagree with this. I'd say the two lists Urobros posted illustrate pretty well how bad Haqq is at Limited Insertion.

    The first one will be torn apart if it goes second. I guess you put up linked Muyib Heavy Rocket Launchers as AROs, but they will be mowed down pretty quickly and your opponent will still have enough orders to kill another unit or two. You'll start your first turn with around 6 orders to your opponent's 15 - you'll have already lost.

    If you go second, your opponent will strip two orders and you'll spend most of the rest of them moving a link up the table. If you want to do any damage, you won't have the orders to back up to safety and your link will be stranded. In your first reactive turn it will be wiped out (the midfield is a very dangerous place) and again your order count will be below a useable threshold.

    The problems? Not enough orders, no ARO potential, and all your units have to spend orders to advance before they can be useful.

    The second list is a little better - at least you can use the Azrails as ARO pieces that will eat more of your opponent's orders before they die. And you have Djabel and Zuleyka for order efficiency. But you have only 9 regular orders, and not much else. There are a lot of points wasted on Saladin (his strategos won't help this list much) and the Hortlak (who doesn't do anything except protect you from losing Saladin). Even just downgrading Saladin and the Hortlak and using the points savings to add Daylamis in group 2 would do wonders for this list.

    Broadly speaking, Limited Insertion just isn't great, but the sectorials that do it well(ish) have strong, tough ARO pieces that can fend off the opponent without losing all your orders. Here's an example:

    If we must Limited Insert
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2
    DRÃGAO Hyper-Rapid Magnetic Cannon, Heavy Flamethrower / AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 73)
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
    TIKBALANG Heavy Machine Gun, Heavy Flamethrower, Shock Mines / AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 68)
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / . (0 | 0)
    ORC Feuerbach / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 38)
    REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    REGULAR (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    REGULAR (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Grenade Launcher ( | FastPanda) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 16)
    REGULAR (Triangulated Fire, Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    DART Submachine Gun, Tactical Bow, Shock Mines / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 34)
    PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 4)
    MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    PALBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    5.5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    The TAGs and the linked Orc can each take a LOT of orders to put down. You'll still lose one or two of them in turn 1, but that will still leave you with close to 10 orders to work with thanks to Tactical Awareness. I'd still rather play a 15-order SAA list, but this is at least playable. Haqq can't put together anything like this.
     
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  14. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    @QueensGambit a think you pretty nailed it "Broadly speaking, Limited Insertion just isn't great". The problem here is not "haquisslam" itself but to play limited insertion while the rival isn't playing the same. Only a few factions can allow to play LI against armies which aren't playing this "mod", I will say CA, Invencible (because is designed to play as LI) and Aleph "mainly". Of course you can do some decent lists in others armies and try to play LI against NoLI. The problem is exactly what you said. If go first, you will have few orders, if you go second, you will have few orders.

    Of course my list will have problems struggling against no LI armies, I don't pretend to say otherwise, but if you want to play this "mod" for some reason no matter what are your rivals playing, I think they aren't bad lists. Of course, to have 4 or 5 daylamis will make the list better, but then I will not be playing LI :D

    In haquisslam I'am "zero" fan of LI.
     
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  15. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

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    If you want to understand better what everyone means when they say that Limited Insertion is a bad idea, I recommend this article. It describes how defense works in Infinity, and why having "chaff" like the Daylami that many have mentioned is so important. Basically, the opponent is forced to deal with your chaff, which means he might not have enough orders left afterwards to take out your more important pieces. Furthermore, having extra regular troops in a second group means you can spend a command counter to move them into your main group when someone from that group has died, and thus you can maximize the amount of orders you have available for your important attackers and objective grabbers.

    https://www.goonhammer.com/infinity-tactics-the-fundamentals-of-defense/
     
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  16. Evilized

    Evilized Member

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    Good day and thank you for your comment. So, small update to my HB experience.


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    FIDAY Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    FIDAY Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
    AL-DJABEL Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 33)
    ASAWIRA (Lieutenant) AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
    ASAWIRA (Doctor [+3]) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
    ASAWIRA AP Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 32)
    GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)
    BARID (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity (-3)]) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    FARZAN (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)

    2.5 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    I played a couple of games against Military orders and also managed a game against Shasvastii with Sphinx(sphinx destroyed a couple of Daylami and Asawira with Ap rifle then died when Al-djabel had a crit).However, craziest game I've had is against Tunguska with Kriza Borac HMG in core of Hollow men(burst 6 jriza with +3 bs for team and +3 for range. Is it even legal?). Asawiras did well but I feel like losing one of them cripples the list a lot. AP spitfire or doctor especially. Fiday on the other hand were really nice. However, i usually used them as suicide attackers. Cancel impersonation(if not discovered) kill something, die. For example, I managed to get rid of Marry Problems with my Fiday crippling opponents hacking game. Furthermore, I have also tried to play them carefully with smoke, kill, re-impersonate combo. However, I feel like it is not as efficent(I wish Al Djabel would have continious damage on his melee attacks) as spending more orders on Asawiras and bringing death and carnage to enemy AROs.

    So my questions are: What would you change in terms of efficency in the list? Should I leave some Fiday and add something else.
    Also, I play HB just for Fidays and Al-Djabel. If Id play Vanilla would it be possible to max on camouflage units. Fiday, Mukhtars maybe.

    Thank you.
     
    QueensGambit and Urobros like this.
  17. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    Hello,

    Hassasin are, right now, in a good place. Too good in fact. In my opnion you can play pretty much whatever list you want and probably you will have chances to win the match (of course, they will be several excpetions). What I'am triying to say is that while your list it isn't something I will play as "default" I can see the potential and you could make it your "personal hassasin style".

    So, what I'm going to say is only my personal opinion and preferences, based on my game experience.

    The thing is that 3 fiday (2+Character) is something that looks amazing on paper, but later, when on the table it isn't so great, because is too easy to run out of orders for them, but it can be done. Asawiras are sometimes so "sparkly" that something urge us to put as many as we can in the list, this will be "dangerous". Yes, they are excelent but yet you will need some balance.

    Comming back to the fiday I will try to explain myself.

    3 fiday are something great if you are going to play some mission where you need to take control over some places of the battlefield, because you can place the 3 wherever you want, lay there prone and almost forget about then, it will be a thing for your adversary to deal with. It will needed a lot of points to counter the fiday, and if its something expensive like a TAG, probably it will be dangerous for that piece to be close to the fidays, because probably you will need only one fiday and a few orders to put down that expensive piece. Even if your rival try to actively deal with the fidays, the success is not granted, because if he fails "the first" discover, then that piece can do nothing more... Only the "fear" to waste orders probably will make your rival fails in some decissions. A good thing for you.

    But, while "all in fiday" is good for "zone control", to "select and kill" they aren't so good, becaue you will probably had left your list with a lack of other pieces. The word will be "unbanlanced". Still you could do "3" fiday work with a "kill mission":

    -allow your enemy to try take care of the fiday, probably will be capable of take down one of them, but no more, in one turn, and the order waste it will, probably, too high. This is about be patient, you don't need to put the fidays to work in the first order of the first turn.
    -Be willing to use command tokens to reach several targets. Move+Move/Move+Move, then you only will need one order over every fiday to kill something, then, "coordinated order" and "reinpersonate". This could be devastating for the other player's moral.

    About Asawiras. They are really great, they can take and do a lot of damage, but still they need some support. Yes, you have a "supercore", but all five member are in the "same spot", you don't have too much flexibility when you need to push some buttons or reach the enemy main attack piece. For example, one TAG can shoot you from distance and you will expend your next turn trying to reach it. Maybe the 3 fiday could help here or maybe not.

    You should have this in mind when you deploy your troups, with this kind of list, you need to spread the daylamis for ARO, and too put the fiday "away of your core", if you do a cross over the board, if your core is placed in the down left corner, your fidays should be place on the right high corner "more or less".

    Your best "anti-ARO" piece are the five daylamis, don't be afraid of do use of commands tokens to have regular orders and do a "panzerfaust shoot" with a coordinated order.

    All this are things you probably need to keep in mind to do your list work better.

    I let you here one of the list I play with, so you can compare and take some ideas. Keep in mind that "don't exist" something as the "right way to play". A lot of things works for others players, but not for you, and viceversa, but yet, it is allways a good thing to compare your own style against others to extract some ideas.


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    MUTTAWI'AH Boarding Shotgun, E/Marat, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 9)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2
    ASAWIRA AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
    AVICENNA Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)
    GHULAM (Lieutenant [+1 Command Token]) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    MUYIB (Tactical Awareness, X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 25)
    LEILA SHARIF (Hacker) Shock Marksman Rifle, E/M Mines, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 20)
    MUYIB (Tactical Awareness, X Visor) Spitfire, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 34)
    YARA HADDAD AP Marksman Rifle / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    FIDAY Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
    AL-DJABEL Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 33)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    It has less power: only 2 fiday vs 3, 1 asawira vs 3, 4 daylamis vs 5, but I has a lightly better orders pool thanks to the tactical awarenes from the muyibs.

    I hope I gave you some ideas :)
     
  18. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    While I agree with @Urobros regarding number of Fidays, I also agree with you, @Evilized , that Fidays are fun and fluffy and wanting to take three of them is totally reasonable :-) When I started Infinity (in N3) I ran three in every list, not because I thought it was ideal, but because I wanted to learn how to use them and having lots of them seemed like the best way to do it.

    Anyway, you've asked for a list that has max Fidays, fewer Asawiras, and still plays like a Limited Insertion list. Here's what I came up with:

    Fidays of Our Lives
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    FIDAY Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    FIDAY Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    AL-DJABEL Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 33)

    ASAWIRA (Lieutenant) AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
    BARID (Hacker, Hacking Device) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17)
    BARID (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity (-3)]) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    MUYIB (Tactical Awareness, X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 25)
    GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)

    SHAYTANIYAH REMOTE Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16)
    FARZAN (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1 [​IMG]4
    FARZAN (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
    6 SWC | 298 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    You still get the gunfighting power of a linked Asawira Spitfire, but you also get versatility in your Core with the hackers, pitchers (supported by guided missile bot), and smoke. The Muyib gives you a tactical awareness order which is particularly valuable in limited insertion (usually you won't want to use the Muyib for AROs on turn 1, it will die too easily).

    It's a slight departure from the limited insertion paradigm in that you've got a regular order in group 2. So you have the option of spending a few orders on a Daylami, usually to use its shotgun on something in the midfield. Or, as @Urobros says, a Coordinated Order panzerfaust shot (opinions vary on how effective that tactic is, but it's got a following for sure). But, if you're set on playing full limited insertion, you can still ignore your group 2 orders and the list will play just fine. You also get to refill your main order pool in later turns by moving the Farzan CoC into group 1 once something has died.
     
    Urobros likes this.
  19. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    3 fiday and yet a really playable list. Everytime I see other players lists on hassasin I have the same feeling... Can be made bad lists with hassasin? XD Leaving aside the joke it is really cool to see how many styles can exists :)
     
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