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Shotguns, Riotstoppers, and Intuitive Attack

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Vanderbane, Jun 5, 2021.

  1. Vanderbane

    Vanderbane Well-Known Member

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    Short version is I'm slow and just realized that these direct template weapons don't have intuitive attack when all the others do.

    Longer version is - why not? There was a debate in late N3 about riotstoppers hitting camo not causing a cancellation for camo, but that's not an issue now bc the phys save is a save, which causes cancellation. And it's not bc non-lethal, because zapper works. Shotguns not working but chain colts do seems similarly illogical.

    I'm not debating the choice, really, it's the rule. More, I'm trying to come up with a way to explain it to new players (and old ones like me) so that we don't need to refer back to the charts so much to make sure we remember it right.
     
  2. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Conceptually, I see Intuitive Attack being about spraying an area because you suspect someone could be hiding somewhere in the area. Which a flamethrower, chain rifle, or cloud of nanobots do well.

    Whereas a shotgun just fires discreet blasts, it doesn't hose down an area.

    It's not perfect since of course, the shotgun's blasts do cover an area... but like all Infinity rules it involves a degree of willing suspension of disbelief :-)
     
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  3. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    Chain rifle already had dtw auto-hit and intuitive attack and were costed accordingly. Shotgun had impact template. They got converted to add auto-hitting dtw, but not given intuitive as that would be too powerfull ability to give them. Imo.

    (For sure in QK WIP14, everyone having a light shotgun intuitive attack would be nasty. Intuitive attack is a tool for which you need to pick specific models. Not a tool to be given as standard loadout on every model.)
     
    #3 Robock, Jun 5, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2021
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  4. Vanderbane

    Vanderbane Well-Known Member

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    Sure agree on the shotgun costing. but look at, say, shas, where every line trooper has a zapper. not exactly game breaking.

    I'll give ya shotties, but none of this explains riotstoppers. it's hard to get less discriminate than a hose of glue.

    edit: Although I still find it hilarious that the sound of a Dyson vacuum is more intimidating to a camo trooper than the _click-clack_ of a shotgun.
     
  5. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I'd say they can't because Corvus, not logic.

    The issue was not because the riotstopper could intuitive fire, because you can shoot normally against an enemy and affect a camo marker in the template's path, something that has not changed in N4 nor N3.




    That video might... disagree. And the +6 to hit, is because the cartriges shower an area with smaller projectiles.

    The problem is, I think, that people would simply say: then make the BSG a single type weapon, and the template from a +1DMG (or not) chaincolt...
    This is quite evident in the Varangian Guard loadouts: BSG is 16pts, SMG + Chaincolt(+1R) is 13pts... sure, the SMG loses 1 damge, and a +3 bonus to BS in the ZoC, but gets Supressive Fire, and chooses AP or Shock ammo... while the double chaincolt is dmg 13 Vs dmg 14 of the BSG template.
     
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  6. Vanderbane

    Vanderbane Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. Still doesn't explain why a glue hose can't intuitive shoot.

    To the broader point about costs and creating overpowered profiles, I mean, fine. but it's not like there aren't nanopulsers and chain rifles and chain colts and whatnot all over the place on skirmishers and line troops. I really don't think giving intuitive to shotguns would introduce a unique imbalance, but as @xagroth says, it's not about logic, exactly.
     
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  7. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Rules mechanical headaches. It's better if they can't...
    Also potentially to reduce the power of them slightly
     
  9. Vanderbane

    Vanderbane Well-Known Member

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    Can you elaborate? in N3 the headache was clear, but I don't see it in N4.
     
  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Ah, yes, true, the PH roll is a saving roll that cancels Camo now.
     
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