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Monofilament suggestions

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by wuji, May 29, 2021.

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  1. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    I answered these questions above, before you even asked them.

    Instead of try to attack me every chance you get, slow down, remove your emotions and absorb what I've said. I heard you, you like the rock, paper scissor effect the mono weapon provides. But think about this, CB actually had to give the Oniwaban a second sword because they didnt know how to keep mono effective on Oniwabans once the autowound aspect of critting was removed. There are multiple cases in the game where CB had to make bandaid decisions. The only reason Kitsune doesnt have one is cause they thought her B2 was good enough whilst she still has to pay for the rest of MA. I know I explained above that this would only make oniwabans slightly less effective against a Jotum but more effective against most other tools in the game. Considering what Oniwaban mostly see on the other side of the table, I'd say it's more than a fair trade. Nobody wants their Oniwaban or Speculo not succeeding in killing Fusiliers and the like. Also, a 5-10% drop in effectiveness for Oniwaban in only the most heaviest of targets in one order does not even come close to breaking them, what is bothersome is they cant use MA to cut make their use of the mono blade more like to get through someone's arm save. Oniwaban are not the only troops who received a secondary ccw as a bandaid either, Tanko, Cuervo, Adil, except CB made a much better bandaid already universally applicable when they started slapping +/- after skills, weapons and equipment. I'd rather really CC specialists get appropriate modifications and fake CC specialists like the Jager get +X to Damage or -X to ARM after the mono entry in their profile then what we have now. Example if Tanko get into it with an ORC this change would work for them just fine. ARM 2 save rolls 13s same as before, right... except he doesnt have to pay for a shock ccw anymore in order to sufficiently be effective against 1-2 ARM troops. Likewise for Speculo. As for others with mono, they can get the words DAM 12 after their weapon entry. And hell if you really really hate the idea of troops applying MA and PH to their mono ccw like every other ccw then you can just suggest that a hand full of troops have DAM X next to theirs like Oniwaban so they dont have to pay for a second ccw.
     
  2. Exuin.exe

    Exuin.exe Well-Known Member

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    So we have DA ccw for killing LI and WB. Why does monofilament need to be targeted against those types of units. It's clear the intended use of Mono ccw is to use as a scalpel against key targets making it worse than DA ccw when it's honestly a different choice than DA would be a strict downgrade for the possible use against objectives. I just don't see why you're suggesting changes to this besides just shooting shit at the wall and seeing if it sticks. And for the Cube jager its a lore reason it has mono as they deploy into hostile battlefields to retrieve cubes so soldiers aren't completely lost when they go down and when they don't have time to remove a cube they have the mono ccw to just cut the head off with the cube with it.
     
  3. Dragonstriker

    Dragonstriker That wizard came from the moon.

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    Probably. I was going off N2 pricing, which was the last reverse engineered costs I was able to remember.
     
  4. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Why would you want to nerf mono CCW? It's fine as it is. Last thing you need to do is hurt YJ more for being the low PH faction.
     
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  5. Ugin

    Ugin Well-Known Member
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    Apologies for being sidetracked, but I see a pattern here...
    1. You suggest something different from the game, with a tone of 'this is obvious, why don't you take actions?', without minimum level of attempt to elaborate your opinion.
    2. People go through hard times understanding your opinion, since it lacks context and elaboration.
    3. You can't understand why people can't understand you, so the atmosphere goes grimdark.
    If you are doing this just for fun, please don't.
    If you are sincere about making your points, I suggest you reconsidering your strategy of proposal.

    I'm not trying to say your opinions are negligible, but if you want to convince people that your opinions are valid, the probability of success goes higher when you voluntarily presume that there will be someone who can't understand you at first sight, and try to make your point more understandable.

    Plus, it would be much appreciated if you could afford to reconsider the neccessity of 'Suggestions'. As others have mentioned, it would be much less time and effort just to build your own game when you have many ideas(like Wuji's Infinity the Game), than modifying every aspects of the game to fit in your ideal version of it.
    I also do have some 'Ideas' to make the game more reasonable, but at the same time I think those ideas are nothing but outputs from my own set of abstract impressions about the game, so I usually try to respect CB's decisions and make 'Suggestions' only when changes are neccessary.

    Thank you.
     
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  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, that makes sense. Mono has gone through a set of pretty wild price reductions each edition. At the moment I have a strong suspicion that EXP CCW is more expensive, which makes sense because EXP CCW is more generally better (mostly because Mono can't hurt AC2 and similar mission objectives).
     
  7. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    See this right here, this is the real problem. Yes I read a little bit more of your comment, but it was just you saying I'm a troll and it's all my fault.

    Your very first bullet point is essentially the problem most of the participants in this thread are having concerning the topic at hand, I'm ignoring the long standing bias this group has. Your first bullet point says I gave a suggestion without providing even a minimum attempt to elaborate my opinion. Given that my explanation is literally in black and white. I mentioned there's a handful of troops who are paying for two CCWs. I mentioned that it's weird that these troops can't apply their MA or PH to using mono. I acknowledged it's the smallest percentage of a downgrade for key troops while pointing out that it's a tradeoff to make mono more effective against the majority of targets and gave clear examples of what I was talking about. I acknowledged some troops would get worse with mono and said they should actually hit harder.

    Looks to me like you're a liar.
     
  8. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    Why not chew him out for saying blind shit just so could try and get one over on me? Look at his statement about mono cost and look at others saying I'm implying mono wouldnt kill anymore, or saying I didnt explain my intention. It's obvious a bunch of people here are just shitty cause all they do is lie in order to pile on.

    And think about that, it doesn't make sense that mono isnt antimaterial, wouldnt it be one of the most anti material things in the game... is Kitsune really only supposed to ever go after TAGs. The idea of her paying .5 SWC is because she is in effect a support weapon her very self. She is the HMG, the Missle the proverbial Arrow, right? Why is it that she has to lose some of her bonuses for MA. I get the game is somewhat an abstraction but I know I'm not the only who points out things that dont make sense. Like why would mono not be anti-material when it can cut through any material.
     
  9. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    I already said those units in yj should hit harder, they only have MA2 but that's still +1 DAM that they could be adding on and a higher PH would not kill them. And what's his face wanted to complain so hard I had to point out that doubling up on ccws is a bandaid while CB already made a better bandaid by slapping +/- on to things, your select yj choices can have that too so that mono doesnt have to be the exception to all other ccws and begets ph and MA on other troops or make those troops pay for 2 ccws. Dont even fuckin bother responding if you're not gonna be honest about what I'm saying. I've addressed every fuckin little thing everyone has brought up and you all keep sayin the same shit as if I didnt address your concerns or explain my self. Just cause you dont like the opinion or agree with it doesnt mean you have the right to ignore that it was even said so you get to repeat yourselves like a bunch of assholes. This community is so fuckin toxic it's enough cause cancer.
     
  10. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    A reduction by 5-10% does not make one a minor annoyance, stop your lying. It's the handful of other mono troops that would need a change in order to catch up in some way.
     
  11. Kreslack

    Kreslack Unknown Ranger lead the way!

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    @wuji there is an edit button for a reason. Damn dude. The old school forum poster in me is cringing so hard at that quadruple sequential post. O_o

    Also I don't see anything wrong with a unit having both DA and Mono CC options. It gives you options. And for the ones who don't most LI are still gonna fold under a hit from Kitsune or and Oniwaban. They still have a huge crit rate and two saves at 40% pass rate is not good odds. And anything that has a B2 monosword is very likely still gonna flood whatever it hits eith saves.
     
  12. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I dont have to say anymore, you all are who you are in real life as you are here. How much do you fucks look at your self in the mirror. I'm done with you all. If by some tiny small chance I ever ever run into you people in realize, please don't make yourself known.
     
  13. Exuin.exe

    Exuin.exe Well-Known Member

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    THE ONE GUY WHO WAS SINCERELY TRYING TO TALK TO YOU AND HELP YOU WITH HOW YOU WERE FORMING THESE POSTS AND YOU BASICALLY TELL HIM TO SCREW OFF. REALLY!?!?
     
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  14. Ashtaroth

    Ashtaroth Aragoto GP Organizer
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    The only thing I'd like you to consider is that maybe the E/M CCW on the Oniwaban is to bloat a bit his points, because if he ran at cheaper points than Ninjas it would screw his balance. Oniwaban has a Boarding Shotgun loadout which is very appealing to deal with mooks, who probably can't even land a shot on him (Mim-6, Surprise-3, Cover-3). Not only that, but I appreciate that, since Oniwaban doesn't have smoke, they get a E/M CCW which is quite fantastic for targets with Bioimmunity, for example. And for when you need Unconscious troops (for objectives) instead of obliterated ones you can't even see their crater.

    Kitsune is a whole different beast. She has smoke, which is very precious in her army, she is also a Mim-6 BS12 skirmisher with a freaking template weapon (Nanopulser). She's very well equipped to deal with mooks. Flanking Combi shots on BS15 vs whatever their range is with a -9 or -12MOD attached is incredibly hard to deal with. Her monosword and MA is to handle the juicier targets as said.

    So, just by these two examples, who are one of the game main abusers of Mono ammo - I can go through the other ones if you want - I don't think Mono needs to be changed, since that most units that have them, also have an assortment of other options to deal with different problems. Even if those options are slightly sub-optimal, but that's what makes this game, a game. And sometimes figuring out how to handle something with a subpar (is it even supbar?) choice is a very interesting and challeging thing that keeps us engaged in the game.

    You wouldn't want everything to be optimized to the max, right? Unless you want mirror matches galore and throwing dice at a wall to see who wins.
     
    #34 Ashtaroth, May 31, 2021
    Last edited: May 31, 2021
  15. Cthulhu363

    Cthulhu363 May his passage cleanse the world.

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    This is a common theme.
     
  16. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
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    Your thread started with how things should be changed and "Why isn't this a thing? It seems obvious to me.".

    There was no mentions of any of the arugments you're saying in this quoted wall of text here in your opening post.

    Instead of going "X should be changed, duh." (which is pretty far from obvious), maybe explain your suggestion and the explantation on why and how you think those changes would benefit the game. This would help a lot with a constructive conversation.

    I still don't understand which goal you're trying to achieve with your suggestion. Is it that CC troopers are too strong? Not strong enough? You'd like to have rules be more streamlined? Is it the rules don't represent the abstraction to you? Having a better idea of what is causing an issue could help align the suggestions.
     
  17. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Wow. Direct name calling and threats of violence? We've got a badass here! :D

    It's not like it's the first time, either. Dude's got issues and a chip on his shoulder.
     
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  18. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Oi mate, I like you, but I really think you need to relax and stop making these 'suggestion' threads.

    A lot of the time you come across as wanting a fundamental change to something that doesn't need to be fixed, or that, in some cases, is a problem for you, as in, it is your opinion, not a problem with the game itself.

    This is a far cry from your somewhat reasonable opinions back in the old forums, man. Take it easy.

    I honestly suggest you take a step back and re-evaluate your stance in this.
     
  19. InMac

    InMac O-12 #Bureau Aegis

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    And the best part... ¿how applies this in to monofilament mines?.
     
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  20. Dragonstriker

    Dragonstriker That wizard came from the moon.

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    Looks to me like you’re a liar.
     
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