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Yu Jing in N4

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    White Noise on a Hac Tao? WTF are you smoking lol.
     
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  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    So? It'll disable Mimetism.
     
  3. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    It sounds really dangerous but when you think about it realistically, compared to what in N4? It's a less effective gun piece with shorter rangebands than a Vostok that core links as a wild card into line infantry links and can basically do the exact same thing. Also as Mahtamori points out while you're using white noise it means the Hac Tao loses Mimetism due to NFB, so it actually comes at a cost compared to every other faction that abuses White Noise.

    Something something N4 power creep something something.

    EDIT: Actually @Mahtamori would the Obligatory tag on Mimetism cause it to immediately reactivate and shut off white noise after you spend the order to place it?
     
    #823 Triumph, May 13, 2021
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Who knows. NFB on White Noise (as opposed to Albedo) was never properly explained. It probably shouldn't have it.
     
  5. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Maybe to stop Custodiers from using it? Which when I think about it labeling Custodier with her combi rifle too lethal if she could benefit from her White Noise and Mimetism at the same time is kinda laughable while the Vostok is running around in the same army with four 9 point Moderators following it making the entire NFB interaction a total farce.
     
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  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    No. This interaction is old given that Custodiers have had it a long time and how this has caused confusion regarding how that specifically works with ODD (people were arguing a few years ago that ODD only got shut down for an order and since White Noise wasn't on the Reverend they'd be able to keep both cakes and eat them both.)
    The rules are a bit better this time around with "until the effects of the new Special Skill, Equipment, etc. are canceled or until it is voluntarily Deactivated" making it fairly clear what's happening. Basically what's new in N4 is that they're referring to the effects of the conflicting NFB skill instead.
     
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  7. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    NFB on White Noise is weird given that it applies when the mimetic hacker is outside the White Noise zone, but it doesn’t apply to allied troopers who enter the zone. That seems really counter to the mechanical purpose of NFB, which is to limit stacking anti-detection/anti-visibility measures on a given trooper. NFB probably ought to be amended to apply to allied troopers who are affected by the NFB skill/program/equipment, whether that’s the user or any other ally. Making it affect any trooper at all might be a problem with White Noise given you could use it to disable enemy mimetism, etc. via a repeater.
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    So that a Custodier can stick it on an annoying Swiss to aggressively remove Mimetism? Or remove Holoecho and Holomask from troopers in an AOE?

    I think NFB as a mechanic is to prevent too much stacking on a single trooper, I don't think it's meant to prevent synergistic stacking between several troopers. Additionally, if you think about it, beyond the zone's own effect, the only time stacking really shoots through the roof or becomes unusual is when you've got a Mim-6 unit inside a zone shooting a MSV1 unit. A Swiss doesn't care about the zone and shoots a Custodier at -6 before other MODs and an Aquila won't be getting any MODs from the Custodier's Mimetism regardless so only cares about the zone and is also at -6 before other MODs. It's the Karhu with MSV1 that would be shooting a Custodier on -9 before further MODs.

    Then, going back to the Hac Tao hacker, the weapon they've got is short range in the grand scheme of things, meaning the number of targets where this is useful for a trooper with native Marker state will be fairly limited. To get past an MSV trooper, usually Camouflage is enough. It's not often the MSV trooper on ARO duty wants to risk Discover so you can typically blackmail your way past them.
    It's at closer range it really matters where MSV troopers aren't typically strong in the first place. They usually have longer range guns, have mediocre stats, and/or weaker DTWs than the average trooper.

    No, what I'd want Hac Tao HD+ for is the synergy with White Noising other units and the Hac Tao is expensive enough to make this less useful on its own. I'd also want it for Cybermask state to get past nasty E/M Mines. But most of all, I'd want it for the fact that Hac Tao means Black Magic (more or less) and is about as black opsy as Yu Jing gets. This is the crême de la crême of Yu Jingse troopers and if there's any trooper that gets special training and equipment that costs several small nation's yearly budget to acquire, this is it.
     
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  10. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    It would be cool and even pretty fluffy, but it's firmly in the "I want a pony" level of wishing for buffs to your own faction. At least now when I go for a look at the Swiss Guard I can think, huh... you've only got 4-4 move. Sucks to have that slow old Pan-O power armor!
     
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  11. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Cyber Pony!
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    But I want a silver pony that pukes rainbows!

    Anyway, yeah, Swiss armour being somewhat less fancy than Hac Tao is appropriate considering how Pan-O got that power armour in the first place. I just wished they weren't so very similarly geared and perhaps a bit more creatively geared.
     
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  13. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Give the ML Hac Tao an assault pistol.

    That'd be creative... right?
     
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  14. Dragonstriker

    Dragonstriker That wizard came from the moon.

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    Too creative.
    Also, too sensible.
     
  15. SpectralOwl

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    Not nearly exotic enough, Assault Chain Colt. 4 templates of WTF, at your convenience.
     
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  16. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Out of all the troopers that fulfill the role of hidden pump-and-dump B1 ARO piece (Swiss, Noctifer, Nadhir), only the Hac Tao (Hundun is sort of in this category, but it gets B2 on the HRL, so it gets a pass in my book) is the only one without a secondary weapon. When you're sinking that many points into a trooper, I think it's reasonable that they have some functionality beyond the initial gimmick, especially considering how good the LSG is on the Swiss now.
     
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  17. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    Well, they do have secondary weapons - pistol and nanopulser. They're just a bit meh compared to a light shotgun, though at least the Hac Tao can intuitive attack. The ML & LSG swiss is an outstanding profile, but the other swiss profiles have less going on whereas all Hac Tao profiles have the nanopulser. This makes our multi-rifle hacker quite a bit better than the swiss hacker, not only can it move up faster, it has a multi rifle and template option as well as an extra point of WIP. Our HMG having NCO, nanopulser and 6-2 mov more than makes up for missing a point of BS.

    I think this edition the Hac Tao has the Swiss solidly beaten... which is as it should be :)
     
  18. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Swiss ML profile is better while the Hac Tao HMG is better and for the hacker profiles it depends on what situation the unit finds itself in, 'cause never discount how valuable increased BS is.

    In general, I wished none of the Yu Jing HI had regular pistols. But for Hac Tao I'd wished for something that breaks the "dog standard light infantry" load out philosophy where the unit has one effective weapon and that's it. As is, the two HMG profiles and the Hac ML are weirdly inept once the enemy gets within 8" and kind of dead in the water and mostly hopeless if engaged (19CC doesn't cut it against anything better than Angus...).
    The Light Shotgun on the Swiss kind of accomplishes this - the "different" doesn't need to be incredible. Nanopulser kind of don't now that the average BTS has gone up.
     
  19. Sedral

    Sedral Jīnshān Task Force Officier

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    I always though the hac tao and swiss guard were supposed to be similar, but with their respective faction spin on it to display more identity. Like, if you see Pano as faction supposed to enact board control through oppressive reactive firepower, then it makes sense to give them the better missile launcher profile and make it more attractive than the HMG option. On the opposite Yu-jing, is a more active turn oriented faction, and the hac tao display that with a better HMG profile (NCO), more speed, and some less conventional attack option (melee and DTW).
     
  20. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    I'm just sad that I converted my hac tao hacker and was ready to paint him and N4 dropped and said 'lol why would you pay 62 points for a regular no frills hacking device' and I agreed and put him in a box.

    It's kind of how hacking in general has felt. It's very feast or famine. You either have great hackers and/or the single dice rolls go well or you have crappy hackers and/or the single dice rolls go poos. So paying lots of dice to essentially have a go on the slot machines feels terrible.
     
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