Lol thank you, and weren't you the guy who critiqued me being the idea guy hahaha. On a serious note, was the mechanics of your idea any different from the mechanics of mine? It seems like they would not be, just worded differently. What was said to you that made you reconsider that fireteams conducting coordinated orders without CTs was bad? And yeah I suspect mixed teams will still be heavily used instead of the min maxing examples above.
Oh everyone has ideas, don't get me wrong, but as long as we keep the discussion at a level. My idea back when was just that the Fireteams were literally Coordinated Orders with a range limit dictated by the Fireteam leader. No formations or anything. You'd just spend a short skill on a unit, decide if it would use a Fireteam, point at who'd come along, then do a coherency check on them and anyone nominated that made the check would truck along with the Spearhead. Haris, and Duo would limit how many could come along, Anymoustaschious and Triads would be highly flexible versions of Core (4 limit) and Haris (3 limit). That all said, I have absolutely no test data and have very little game experience that could inform me if this would be more or less bonkers than the top performing Fireteams other than that people tend to end up finishing games with command tokens left rather than coordinate units with them. It's a fairly huge alteration to sectorials.
Yes I did understand the context that Fireteams would not get any other benefits. I still think it would be too strong and make it so ARO pieces are effectively useless
I agree something needs to be done about fireteams. I had hoped N4 would remove them completely. To compensate, sectorials could have gained 8 command tokens instead. I kind of like your suggestion, but maybe limit the number of coordinated orders possible somehow? One aspect of current fireteams that I do like is that they are very good ARO pieces. I think the game need more defensive units cause right now the active player is at such an advantage that I feel it's not worth setting up any ARO. So an idea I had was to modify the 5team bonus to only apply +3 BS in reactive turn. Maybe sixth sense should be removed too? Replace with 360 fire arc? I don't know but something should be done.
How do you think that though after I just elaborated on how the proposed complaints of problems aren't actually a problem?
Would you say the main reason why the active turn is so deadly is because people are using fireteam and the fireteam leader after bonuses is pushing a BS of 15-17, sometimes with Marksmanship/mimetism and MSV? Would you say Sectorials with Fireteams like described above are far more scary than Vanilla forces? If so then removing the bonuses would reign that in. 8 command tokens would have maybe been enough. I'd probably ask for 10 only because of the efficiency of having a core, a Haris and a duo all at the same time. But, think about this, in keeping fireteam availability as it is right now along with Tac Window and 4 CTs as usual and the requirement to spend a CT to reform a fireteam: how many fireteam core (coordinated) orders do you think could be performed as the team loses members and the leader (having to spend 1/4 CTs to reform) to stronger troops in camo, or high arm high bs, or higher burst due to sup fire, neurocinetics or reaction? I truly suspect after explaining these scenarios that this might be the cleanest fix suggested. And to think I had once suggest fireteams function like coordinated orders but with higher burst for every member
Oh wow, so none of the units would have had to be from the same unit? I could have gotten behind that and just use characters and select troops as leaders though some factions dont have survivable leaders but it wouldnt have matter with that kind of versatility. I suspect the end result would have been much like my suggestion too. It literally could have been called Fireteam Leader: Core, Haris, Duo etc etc
No no, same restrictions as a normal fireteam at the time, hence why anymoustachio and triad would've been a leg up on a Core or Haris.
It has already been effectively removed and left only for circumventing zero vis zone mods any shotgun user can dismantle most fireteams with a template/ftf fork
I was suffering at the hands of a Varuna link-team, dug into a building. They had an Orc and sniper and the rest as fusiliers. They ripped apart the Caledonians I was using. I thought I was going to lose the game, but on my last turn I was able to get my Highlander Grey - with shotgun +1 B) to their position using dogged. I just pumped my last orders into it, and the shotgun just took them apart. The template and its ability to ignore cover is brutal against link-teams.
That wasn't actually difficult (if somewhat order heavy). I had plenty of cover to move up the board, and then when I had to close the last gap, I relied on dogged. There was certainly a bit of luck involved, but it paid off. It went from a loss to a win in that turn.
