Is it just me, or is the ZVZ timing for smoke counterintuitive?

Discussion in '[Archived]: N4 Rules' started by wes-o-matic, May 11, 2021.

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  1. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic Meme List Addict

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    The gameplay process for placing Smoke depends on the OES, the BS Attack skill, the Impact Template Weapons rules, the Smoke Ammunition rules, and the MSV equipment rules due to their interaction with smoke.

    Placement of the template at declaration comes from the Impact Template rules.

    The Smoke rules say:
    • the ammunition generates a Zero Visibility Zone with infinite height
    • you can use it to FTF one or more incoming attacks that require a roll and LoF (MSV exception applies)
    • if you're using it for FTF you have to win all of them, or the template disappears during the Effects step
    The MSV rules say MSV attacks are Normal, not FTF, vs. a Smoke placement attack.

    Okay so far. But...

    This bullet in Smoke ammunition creates an implication that the ZVZ is generated at template placement, not during the subsequent Effects step:

    The underlined wording implies that the template immediately generates a ZVZ at placement. That doesn't cause any issues for an MSV2 trooper, but it would complicate life for the MSV1 trooper (who is now making a Normal roll but at -6) and would mean that even though a non-MSV trooper is allowed to make a FTF roll per the wording of the Smoke rules, that is in conflict with the rules for non-MSV troopers drawing LoF through a Zero Vis Zone.

    The whole thing works if you assume that the ZVZ doesn't exist until the Effects Step, and the phrase I underlined above is supposed to be read as "whose LoF passes through the cylindrical area above the Smoke Template." But it doesn't actually say that.

    Theoretically, per the OES, generating the ZVZ is an "effect" and occurs during the Effects Step after rolls are made, buuuuuuuut all the other stuff about Smoke causing FTFs etc. is also listed as "effects" but the context means they apply before the Effects Step, so that's not much help.

    Am I the only person who thinks that this is one of those parts of the rules structure that will annoy people new to the game? Because it really seems like you have to have someone walk you through it and tell you it's OK to selectively ignore other parts of the rules to make it work as intended.
     
    RobertShepherd likes this.
  2. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    It should be read as as "allows the user to make a Face to Face Roll against all enemy Attacks that require a Roll and LoF, and whose LoF passes through the Zero Visibility Zone [that will be] generated by the Smoke Template [if the Trooper throwing Smoke wins the FTF]."

    Its talking about the ZVZ that may or may not end up existing.

    So yes, Smodge does break normal timing conventions (something which doesn't exist yet affects the outcome or the order) but how it works is explicit and clear, so just accept the slightly weird wording and move on.

    There's actually quite a few things that break the Effects timing considerations. They all basically annoy me, but *so long as they're clear exceptions* it's fine.
     
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