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Yu Jing in N4

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    A very rare weapon trait that's new to N4, only exists on Mine Dispensers as far as I remember

    "Double Shot
    This weapon or piece of Equipment can apply a +1 MOD to its Burst value. If it also possesses the Disposable (2) Trait, this Burst MOD can only be applied if both uses remain unspent. Applying this MOD will expend both uses, putting the Trooper in Unloaded State."
     
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  2. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    I'm a bit curious : I spend some time analysing Yu-Jing Vanilla roaster and it seems very nice.

    It feels like a mix of Pano straitghforward domination and Combined army tricky way. Lot of potential for very diverse and dangerous list and playstyles

    But reading the forum, I don't see much hype regarding vanilla Yu Jing in N4. Is there a reason for that ?
     
  3. Chaserabinov

    Chaserabinov Well-Known Member

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    I concur, YJ has some great options and is a very fun faction to play (plus the minis look great).
    One must however remember about the one thing that is the YJ defining characteristic, it's superpower. It is our superhuman ability to complain on the forum about everything about this army ;)
     
  4. Moxie

    Moxie Well-Known Member

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    If we told everyone how great Yu Jing is we would stop getting stuff, I still need Long Ya and more then just a blister of monks.
     
  5. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    We can unite in approval behind a job well done.

     
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  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It's easy to stay annoyed when something gets under your skin and stays there, but it's hard to keep hype about being in a good spot up for long. I don't read other forums as devotedly, but I only really see any form of maintained positivity on the Haqq forums about their vanilla. Everyone else seem to be tied to release cycles.
    Except Pan-O. They don't ever talk nice about their vanilla. Like ever.

    Sure, vanilla Yu Jing is strong. I could easily place it in the bottom half of an Infinity All Factions Ranked top 10.
     
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  7. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    The thing to keep in mind when getting tempted to rank armies is that ITS balance is extremely tight, at least it was in N3. With a lot of ITS games played the win percentage variance for best armies versus worst armies was + or - about 6%. Infinity just isn’t that swingy based on faction choice. Skill as a general and specific tournament pairings matter as much or more than which army you bring. Also we would assume that the best generals choose an army or sectorial that they know they can make work for the tournament missions. Certain armies that may seem like they’re not top tier considered as a whole may be great fits for the mission selection at a particular event.

    Yu Jing gives you a huge toolbox to play with, especially if you have a big enough collection to build lists from the sectorials and vanilla. That versatility is what makes it a strong faction, not that it’s best at one type of game.
     
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  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    IMO, once you get out of the top 5 it gets fairly decently balanced and the worst factions still have one or two really strong list archetypes, it's variety that is missing.
     
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  9. Sedral

    Sedral Jīnshān Task Force Officier

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    I don't think I've seen anyone disagree that vanilla yu-jing is just crazy good. I guess there could be some debate about specifics. Like, I'd swear the daoying/hac tao/kuang-shi set-up is too damn functionnal to not be auto include, but YMMV.
     
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  10. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Hac Tao NCO was probably a bit much. The XO neutering near the end of N3 was completely out of line, but I feel the change to NCO went too far in the opposite direction.
     
  11. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Only thing that annoys me about it is it's only on one profile.

    The Hac Tao is fine though, the problem isn't with it it's a meta issue. If the Hac Tao was actually that busted with NCO you'd see it taking pointman duties in Invincible Army far more often than it does. The fact that IA's links still feature as the main points of their sectorial lists shows that it's fine in the scheme of things.

    Why does is feel like it's too damn functional? Not just because you can run 12 orders through the Hac Tao but because that's one of the few configurations Vanilla can build without getting ass fucked by hacking.

    Basically our heavy hitters want to either stay under a marker state, or at least be packing a Tinbot or they're straight food for anything that can project a repeater. I like the Mowang, I like the Su Jian, I even still really like the budget Zuyong profiles and I like both of our TAGs. Unfortunately they're all fucking liabilities right now.

    If CB addresses the balance issues with hacking it'll do most of the leg work to fix the internal issues that Vanilla Yu Jing has.
     
    #811 Triumph, May 8, 2021
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
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  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I don't like the Hac Tao HMG NCO, to be honest. It's weird, but it's railroading you towards a very specific style of play which is kind of good to have in your toolset, but also got nerfed in N4. I'd have loved to have NCO on the MRifle Hac Tao profiles as once some very specific threats are dealt with the HMG version falls off quite hard and I'm lovin' the medium range engagements in this edition. Definitely not an auto-include for me.

    Krit Daoying, though, is really fun. Somewhat difficult, but really fun, and reasonably similarly effective in vanilla as in IA. Vanilla has the ability to pad Krit's minelaying with Guilang's minelaying.
     
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  13. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Hac Tao HMG is one of the coolest miniatues in the game so he deserves to be good. My biggest gripe about Hac Tao is they are not AVA 2 anywhere, and they are not even AVA 1 in White Banner where they were originally intended to have a home. Let them borrow AP magazines from the Shang Ji and you'd have a meta defining unit.
     
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  14. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    I'm a bit surprised you have so many problem with hacking. How hacking heavy is your meta ?
     
  15. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    No, the point is that it's one of the tools that Vanilla is forced to leverage to avoid having their main attack piece destroyed by enemy hacking. It seems stupid good for Vanilla because it's both very efficient with NCO and all the bells and whistles, and it's also not vulnerable to getting fucking destroyed by a hacker if you go second unlike a Mowang or Blue Wolf. That's not an indictment on either of those two units though they're both good the problem is the metagame not the profiles.

    The Hac Tao would be far less of a no brainer pick for Vanilla if CB addresses the fact that for low hacking proficiency armies (particularly Vanilla ones) they often have no reasonable defense against a hacking proficient opponent and are entirely at their mercy to being curb stomped if they go second. The only way they can hope to avoid that is to pass a gear check by designing their list to be full of unhackable/hard to hack targets, like a Hac Tao, or no value hackables like Kuang Shi and Monks.

    Basically the hacking meta is unbalanced as fuck which makes the non marker state/tinbot options we have as primary attack pieces very risky to build a list around. CB needs to address that at some point or things will be somewhat stagnant in that regard.
     
    #815 Triumph, May 8, 2021
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  16. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Extremely.
     
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  17. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    I'd second all of this. Krit seems extremely useful and a very tricky little alpha strike option if paired with a couple of coordinated order spotlight hackers and a Son-Bae. The options to spend your NCO orders stinking the place up with repeaters or mines, doing a guided alpha strike or a heavy shotgun alpha strike give you quite a lot to work with.

    I also think it's a shame the Hac Tao didn't get an NCO hacker profile, and I'm a little bummed out it traded the KHD profile for regular HD. That profile was a point of differentiation with the Swiss Guard for me - being able to run around the table terrifying enemy hackers made up a little for not having that incredible light shotgun option. A KHD Hac Tao could just go where it wanted to go and wasn't scared of much short of an Antipode pack.
     
  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    In my experience I'd rather take an HD than a KHD, Trinity is incredibly pillowfisted and the Hac Tao already has a good marker state. High-BTS hackers are more scared of Oblivion than Trinity.
     
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  19. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    Good point, I guess Dam 14 Normal ammo is a bit weedy. The +3 mod and burst on trinity will be nice for winning face to face rolls and makes up a bit for losing the faux marksmanship on the KHD but the damage is unlikely to stick.

    Maybe still worth it for units that could make use of cybermask, but the Hac Tao already has something better...
     
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  20. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but being slightly greedy I'd say this is just about the only place where a HD+ is justifiable among native Yu Jing profiles, even if it is somewhat outside the Yu Jing repertoire.
     
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