Now that there are multiple bikes and TAGs with CC skills and it seems so un-thematic that these units don't do drive by swipes or literally attempt over running an enemy. Some units I think it should be on: Yojimbo Kuroshi Penny Montessa Kum Desperados Scarface's TAG Blue wolf TAG Description: Automatic Skill CC Special Skill, Optional Requirements: Must have LoF to target. Must not be in silhouette contact/engaged already. Must not be in immobilized or null state. Fill in any of the other appropriate requirements. Effects: This is a CC Special Skill that stacks with other CC Special Skills (maybe not Berserk, leave that up to CB). It grants the user the ability to Declare a CC Attack and move both MOV values against a single target like Berserk but it doesnt grant normal rolls. What it does is, should the user's CC Attack be successful they can pass through the silhouette of their target, not getting locked into a CC engagement if their silhouette can leave the targets silhouette by the end of both MOV values. If they fail their CC Attack or their target beats their F2F roll then they dont pass through and they are engaged as usual. This is an active turn skill so dont worry about an enemy's Berserk interfering with how this plays out. Obviously the wording needs clean up but its really strait forward and it allows for a little more realism and simultaneous cinematic effect. CC TAGs and Bikes should be doing big brawler robot moves and drive by swipes. You could potentially give this to Musashi, this might allow him to be more effective because he can then move through a crowd hacking and slashing... again clean up the wording some.
Also just thought how Musashi doesn't have to have overrun, Berserk can be broken down into two parts. CC Attack (Normal Rolls) and CC Attack (Move+Move). Musashi could just have Move+Move...
I think bikes are plenty fine as they are. They are lucky enough to exist the volume that they do (or at all) and have enough going for them we don't need to have a heap of niche extra rules made for them so that they can use them once every 40 games. The berserk rule already exists for a reason. And the bikes that do have them use them fine. Your overrun is killing your target in one CC/berserk order not dying and continuing on your way next order. I don't think it requires a new rule/skill that does almost exactly the same thing. Now if you want to argue that more TAG's could use berserk. Then I'm in agreement. CC is generally a counter to TAG's and actively it still would be. But trying to melee something like that sound require not only massive expertise, but also the drop on it. (Active turn) on it's own turn they should be able to swat whatever failed to get that swing in to try and quickly free itself. Or punt a nearby mook with nothing more threatening than his light shotgun or combi.
Maybe reread, the similarity with Berserk stops at mov+mov. Also not sure are you saying players take it 1/40 games right now? That's probably not the case for Yojimbo cause of his kit but I think people would use those bikes more with this. As for TAGs with Overrun and Berserk, I specifically said leave that up to CB for that exact reason so I dont understand why repeat what I said as if I didnt say it
I'm not saying people take those units one in forty games, but this rule will only ever be relevant in that many games where these units are used. There is way too much going in your rule. It reminds me of trying to get silent to work in CC in N3 cool in concept awful in execution. Most of these bike CC units will rarely find a time they would ever use this. They want lone targets they can reach in one movement, or ones they can get inside smoke. Otherwise they get shot. as for creating simpler rules that could allow something like this for Mushashi or Kitsune to use [since they are the only MA5 units in the game, and other CC burst bonuses are rare outside of pistols] you'd just make a [Disengage skill] : This unit can freely leave the disengaged state when it moves Now a unit with this skill could start in CC with someone, move into a second target and declare CC with split burst on both. [providing they have a second burst]
How about: A bike is never considered Engaged in CC, and when making an Active turn CC attack may continue moving it's full first move value after making the attack (whatever the results). Basically give them a special skill that makes their CC work just like normal Ranged?
I do like this but losing the second move value feels off for people who are supposedly riding people down with their CCWs like knights on horseback, what did they used to say, no one could withstand English Heavy Infantry on horseback?
You could make it something like a special version of Berserk, where the bike gets to make a full move (maybe even in a straight line?) that passes within 1" of the target model and both the bike and the target model get to make normal CC attacks.
I think this suggested skill fails because it creates a conditional movement depending on the outcome of a face to face and of variable value. Basically it gets messy in a way that's unnecessary. I'd also be quite wary of creating a skill that allows a 14" movement hit-and-run useful for miniatures with CC levels high enough to make return fire almost meaningless against them.
Since these thoughts are conflicting. But the idea stems from it makes no sense for the CC oriented bikers to get stuck so easily let's try a different approach. Skill name: Hit and Run Description: Passive, CC Special Skill, Optional Requirements: Must put target enemy model into unconscious or null state by CC Attack. Effects: Allows user to move it's Dodge Distance in the effects step after saves are rolled and the target is incapacitated.
Tbh, there's a lot about bikes that don't make sense as a combat platform, but for what you are trying to do simply having regular berserk makes more sense. You'll be driving up against an enemy in a predictable pattern and if you make the attack the enemy is likely to be dead or unconscious leaving the bike free to move with another order and if not they've managed to trip you up, possibly by touching the steering wheel or something sending the driving flying Still, I'd be wary of giving anything a 9+" when it comes to melee. Berserkers have to start inside the reach of a flamer for a reason. (With only a few 10" exceptions)
I like the idea of giving TAG or bikes or even just larger sil models a sort of 'charge though' to smash through smaller models and make some sort of attack against them. One thing I'm wary of is bikes hiding around the corner, moving out and through and back and swinging. These moves would need a 'no double back' clause which gives headaches similar to that terrible wording on impetuous. Btw did impetuous ever get clarified? If so that could help with the development of this.
There should be something about choosing two points A and B, start and end of movement, which are on a line going across the model's silhouette and close enough together that the model can use its Move to get from A to B.
TAGs used to be able to do this in N2. I think motorcycles might have been able to do it as well, but I only ever saw TAGs do the blitz run. (snip) Overrun: Overrun is a Long Skill that consists of performing a Charge with a T.A.G, or a Light or Heavy Vehicle. The CC Attack is substituted by the MOV Skill, Overrunning the target, who must make a PH Roll or take damage. Using this Long Skill, any subsequent MOV that runs over a figure will be considered an Overrun attack. The Damage caused by an Overrun is equal to the PH of the vehicle. The target of the Overrun can choose to Shoot (Face to Face Roll BS against PH), Countercharge (Normal Roll of CC), or Flee (PH Face to Face Roll against PH). If the Overrunning figure wins the roll, the defender takes Overrun damage and must make an ARM roll or take a wound. The attacker continues on to complete his move.
And that's fair. I didnt think of that when I said it. Though I dont think it will be as common a problem as first thought only cause of how big a bike's base is and and 3 or inches is not 8 except Kuroshi. What kind of wording you have in mind? I was okay with having it move like Berserk but I'm afraid it might hardly get used that way. What do you about strait 8 with LoF Req. and then move where ever you want with that dodge equivalent move after. This way the wording stays simple and it's still relatively flexible.
