I think a bigger a question is why do people not address the topic. If they dont believe mimetism is over used and this less interesting, then people should say that, right. If dont agree with the suggestions but do agree with the assessment of mimetism, then why not make their own suggestions... And if we are honest, we should also address that liking ideas is subjective and subject to personal biases simply based on who the creator is and not the value of the suggestion.
I don't agree mimetism needs to be replaced (we have plenty sources of MODs), I don't agree we need more active turn advantage (peak active turn advantage is already quite potent), and I don't agree we need more reactive turn strength (peak reactive turn strength is already doing weird things to unit selection) Game isn't perfect, but I think the game needs to cool down a bit rather than have a War Of The MODs. Berserk equivalent for shooting would be interesting, though...
Haha, I wouldnt say it isnt but I think we can agree it's cost should actually be 0 or its placement should be more strategic by CB.
The problem with "peak active turn advantage" is that it usually combines multiple mods. It's not the existence of the mods, but I suppose you could argue that if a mod exists it will inevitably intersect with other mods until it creates a new peak. That said, if you avoid stacking Mimetism with some sort of new "not Mimetism" mod on models, then it's just different way to get to the same peak. I would say that I'm opposed to a cloned "Not-Mimetism" skill working very similar to Mimetism, more so if it has a "not-visor" There might be room for a -burst mod, or was that exactly what the Dazer was which got removed? There might be room for a -link bonus skill, as links are one of the few mods without a negation skill. I have no clue what that would be thematically. Surprise shot just needs sixth sense taken out of link bonuses, then it could be a more useful mod, but that would increase peak active. I think Marksmanship could be more frequent, particularly it seems like an interesting mod to pair with Impetuous if you ask me. Just keep it away from top end shooters. As far as combining dodge and shoot, I think I could see skill for "mov-mov shoot" with -3 bs for active and reactive rolls. It would eclipse dodge though. As far as Normal rolls in shooting, I think coordinated orders offers that with a reasonable cost/limitation.
It's cost should be well above 0. Getting 3, camo, neurocinetics units for 27pts is rediculous. That much swing in the reactive turn should come at a premium not a discount.
I'd probably make MIM-6 degrade to a -3 if the conditions are not met. Its not immersion breaking to have an invisible soldier be harder to hit to some extent all of the time. Its just annoying that the counterplay be purely gear related and how MSV is so poorly distributed. Antipodes should not pay for MIM-6 lol. I think all skills should be costed in-context. A purely melee unit getting evasion for cheap is fine compared to a gunner getting it! If Mimetism was conditional, Antipodes would not change much - the vast majority of their defense comes from marker state not mimetism in my experience.
I could get behind the game becoming more dependent upon positioning. The real.question is, do imagine mimetism -6 looking more like the predator where he's always slightly visible or is it where if they dont move then they become completely invisible, no example comes to mind. Let's say for Ninjas as an example. Would you say, if against an object they gain mim-6 and if standing out in the open they were mim-3? Would this make then cheaper, people might jump all over this. There's other modifications people can think of as well. Well if I said antipodes should get mimetism-6 but not pay for it, people might cry heresy. That being said, they are the only units in Ariadna I might imagine who could get it. If their furry serves as any kind of camouflage, enough to make them moving marker states, perhaps their fur is like an octopuses skin? But, your right marker state is more effective than mimetism. Some things in the game dont make sense sometimes. Like wouldnt marker state make more sense if the unit stays still, they end up blending so well into the background that they disappear, where if something is moving, you can see something is moving.
But with no active turn equivalent to suppression fire? I mean its neat, but it's more like a trade than an actual buff because you're also matching enemy burst in their reactive...
Given how much they pushed DTW's in the edition change between the shotgun change (may it burn in hell) and most new profiles getting a DTW it wouldn't surprise me if it's their next step.
Mimetism is overused, but the issue isn't with game mechanic, it's with unit design. Spreading Mimetism around with a shovel means multiple lost opportunities to use more interesting - and much less common - skills and their combinations, means that different factions are getting units very similar to others - just a little bit more or less efficient, depending on minute details - but it definitely doesn't mean that vismods need more hard counters than we already have. Beginning with generous proliferation of MSV. Core game mechanics are just fine and should be left as is. Also, CB moves the game towards greater interactivity - meaning less opportunities for unopposed rolls - for two editions now.
I'd blame increasingly Fireteam-centred design for a lot of this. The gigantic list of things a Core counters for free, or that Fireteams can't use, drives the designers away from experimenting with more things like Holoprojectors, Surprise Attack-focused units or the actual Sixth Sense skill because they don't play nice with the sales-boosting Fireteam rules. I'm definitely not in favour of altering the core mechanics, but the N4 Fireteam annex could fix a lot.
[QUOTE="Mahtamori, post: 403483, member: 382" Berserk equivalent for shooting would be interesting, though...[/QUOTE] Yes it would but it would probably need to be on something that has low armour and/or only 1 wound to prevent a high armour piece just killing the opponents entire army.
Tell that to the Sin Eaters which are hardly ever played because a TR bot is cheaper and more survivable.
Neurocinetics should have just been upgraded to TR in the edition change with an appropriate cost bump.
I'm thinking treating it like Sensor. Keep it relegated to low-range guns and guns with a somewhat lower damage:ammo:burst ratio. Even a Multi Rifle might be a bit much. Combis, Contenders, Shotguns, and all that jazz I'd also think that keeping it on Impetuous units only, or at least attaching a rule that you can not benefit from Cover while using it. The idea behind Berserk is that you get a really high-damage unit, pick on a unit that is either incapable of incapacitating you or that is so valuable that that would be fine, and that you are likely of causing permanent harm. I don't think this ability on a HI like the FO Domaru would be bad but it'd be far too good on a Tanko who's got weapons that can just outrange too many opponents (or pie-plate them!) and something like Achilles would also be a bit off since most guns don't have a serious chance of hurting him. Of course, Varangian or Varangian equivalent units would be just fine. As an added benefit, Gunzerk wouldn't work well for DTWs.
This. I'd like fireteams to be both useful and fun to use, while not locking down a significant portion of the game at the same time. This would create another problem, though; such units would immediately see their active turn value increased, which would step on other units' design space, creating potential internal balance issues. I think Neurocinetics is perfectly fine as a skill, the issues show when the unit using it isn't designed well.
I think the Sin Eater is outstanding. With HMG he's only 7pts and 0.5 SWC more than a reaction bot. And is 3 points up on armor, 2 on BS, and has Mimetism. I wish I had these guys. I find them much harder to remove that a reaction remote. People say that you can't use Neurocinetics actively, but you really never should have to in the first place. A. Your opponent isn't going to leave units out in the open where you could shoot them actively with a neurocinetics unit. B. The best places to deploy reactive units are usually hard to move out of. So you likely arent planning to use these pieces in the active turn unless things have gotten extremely bad. C. Your opponent is going to try and remove them. You want them to cause damage. But most importantly you want them to eat up as many orders as possible. But the reality is they arent going to survive much past the furst turn unless things are going really well. In which case you don't need them in the active turn. D. If your opponent can't deal with them. Then you've gained massive amounts of board control and still have no need to move them or use them actively. So this really isn't much of a downside. As powerful reactive turn firepower is really hard to come by. And as shown above, the way you use them doesnt require active turn use. My big axe to grind is with the Helots. I think the Sin Eater is priced fine.
Absolutely no active turn use, no shock immune means he is removed if two hits go through (1 hit from a TAG or a unit that has shock just because) and all things that kill TR bots (MSV+smoke, extreme mod stacking) dispatch of sin-eater just as easily. Forfeiting all active turn use is not good for a 30 point unit Nomad TRbots have climbing plus It took extreme minmaxing of Helots to make neurokinetics a valuable skill.
