I agree generally. Also though, I've done and seen people do ok in individual games with Observance based forces (@inane.imp included), even in some tournament games. But I've never seen anyone come close to winning a tournament with them. You can make them work, but it's a little harder to do so consistently with them, and the effectiveness for cost of multiple profiles isn't doing the heavy lifting if you do, your play is. I think that's fair.
I don't disagree, and really can't since I don't play BJC. But things can change fast and as a rule I reassure people to not discount units because they're unpopular. I wonder if people will be reading this in the future wondering how Bakunin ever got by before Moira got good.
So, the Chaksa Longarms will be available for us in a few weeks. But do we really need them? I think: no. They don't bring anything that isn't aready catered for by other troops. Except maybe the basic profile with its E/M Grenades since Grenades in general are pretty under-representated in Bakunin.
I think a lot will depend on their fire team options, but other than that Riot Grrls are better in every way.
It needs to be a bit more than that considering both the Tsyklon and Vostok are wildcards and offer better shooting platforms and more versatility. Chaksa will need to be a fireteam that other stuff mixes into to have a chance at seeing the table.
Yeah you are 100% right. Seems rather pointless of CB to give an underplayed sectorial full of underplayed models a unit option that will never get played with their current rules.
Yes, e.g. if the Longarms become Linkable with Moderators I'll happily swap the Autocannon Chaksa with the Tsyklon. B3 Dam16 AP+EXP is quite nice to have But I doubt there will be any Fireteam adaption.
But Pitchers and linked Clockmakers. If we assume that they can Haris then I can maybe see the Mk12 as a pointman. Allows you to invest a lot of SWC elsewhere and doesn't have the cost associated with a Vostok.
Did the latter, won't do it again. The Pitcher can be brought by the Moderator though but that makes hiding the Lieutenant under other plain Moderators more difficult. Or the Dep. Rep Zero is deployed.
At BS12 a Longarm in a full moderator link will be usable. Either with the missile launcher or with the autocannon to shred a lot of stuff. But are they needed? No. No they are not. However, I am hoping against hope that them being added to the army also comes with other minute changes, which would be more welcome.
But then why would you not just use a Riot Grrrl or Tsyklon for same, linked into Moderators? I guess if you really want an autocannon or mk12 instead of a Feuerbach or Missile or a Spitfire, but again cant really see why you would. The only way I see it working at all is if they mix in with Reverends to bring the average cost down with the cheap e/m grenades profile or the mk12 (with mines). But then that just speaks to how overcosted Reverends are if adding one of the most maligned troop profiles in the game to them makes them more cost efficient. There might be some other underlying reason, like a big fluff event coming to justify it. Like the models, never taking them unless something significant else changes though.
The Tsyklon is too fat for the Grrls. Thus it literally acts as a bullet magnet which never favourable for a 1W Trooper. And TBH B3 AP+EXP sounds good enough to let the ML Grrl take a break from time to time. But your're definitely right with the Nuns: they're just too expensive for their performance and would really need either a cost reduction or some cheap filler troops (but no alien mercenaries).
It's what 2pts cheaper. Loses 1W, MSV, Dodge (+3) and is effectively 2 DAM less in ARO. Why would I give that up? And do we *really* think they'll be core linkable with Mods? Perhaps if Grrls couldn't link with Mods I'd agree with you, because then we'd be comparing a Mod + Chaksa PAC Core vs a Mod + TM HRL Core vs a Grrl + Wildcards Core. Which is fundamentally the problem with the not-Observance half of BJC: it's strong because Grrls are strong and ubiquitous. This closes off the design space: either something needs to be absurd to compete or it hits the issue of "Grrls run the world, Grrls!". I've long argued that BJC would work best with 3 separate core elements that are internally balanced. * Moderator Corps (Moderators, TMs [+ Morlocks]) * Vulkanja (Grrls) * Observance (Healers, Custodiers, Moiras) Avi as Vulkanja, Kusanagi as Observance and Clockmakers + standard REMs and Wolfy as Wildcards. Morlock Spec Ops character would be linkable with Moderator Corps and maybe Vulkanja. CK/Crossier priced Observance Neophytes is still kinda required to make the Observance part work though. In this construct you could actually add Chaksa to the Vulkanja part: allowing Chaksa to freely link with Grrls would add interesting variety to that link. From a fluff POV playing up the Chaksa Longarma as weapons specialists and an oppressed minority could sync up nicely with Vulkanja Module's "build/kill it yourself" culture. This also has the joy of simplicity: you don't need to list lots of Fireteams. Rather you go: * A, B, C can form a Moderator Corps Fireteam Core, Haris or Duo. * D, E, F can form a Vulkanja Fireteam Core, Haris or Duo * X, Y, Z can form an Observance Core or Haris. * Special Fireteam: Wildcards. <Trooper> can be part of any Fireteam of this Sectorial Army.
Your experience with linked Clockmakers must vary a lot from mine. I love them, a lot. Having someone in a Grrls link who can repair your HI out of IMM or even Targeted, who is not hackable when that's crucial, who is a WIP 15 specialist, and who is relatively-cheapo filler in the link is pure gold in my experience. Grrls with Avicenna AND a Clockmaker are possibly one of the most resilient units in the game. I don't even use attack remotes much, but if I did I would definitely put a Moderator in there with them, even more than I do with Grrls. Having an Engineer always right next to your main shooters or assault HI is well worth losing the ability to have a Zondbot, IMO. Front-line engineers being more of a thing is one of the best parts of nomads in N4, again IMO.
Also a BS15 B2 X-visor Pitcher (Tsyklon) is an order of magnitude more dangerous than a Moderator Pitcher (BS13 B2) IMHO.
You're of course right, the Clockmaker can be an is a formidable specialist in a fireteam. But then again our list design or playstyle might be the variable here. In my current base list i usually bring three remotes: the Tsyklon Sputnik, the Reaktion and the Vertigo Zond this means there are three spots in my DZ where the Clockmaker has to be present if needed. That's way easier to cover with two Zondbots than with a B3 Gizmokit (since Partial Cover and ranges can become detrimental). And so far I was pretty lucky, my Grrls or the Tsyklon never were in the threat of IMM or ISO - it's rather the Taqeul's Endgame that annoys me on a regular Basis, I wish the Grrls still had their Stun Grenades or even other Grenades. Sure, but not as reliable as the Zero's Dep. Rep. which was my go to Trooper in N3 where the whole Speculative Fire / Guided game was way more diverse and fun ;) And you propably mean BS18 and BS16 at least within 8"-16". IMO the Pitcher Moderator has the advantage to hide from any BS attacks whilst the Tsyklon has to be used as the Fireteam's ARO piece despite beeing a bit too weak for this.
Interesting. I am also very fond of Dep. Rep. Zeros, but in Sectorials I think Tsyklon in the Fireteam is much more order-efficient and reliable regarding "setting up the repeaters". The major reasons would be 6-4 move / X-visor / +3 BS Attack MOD. Not to pick on what you've said, but I've got some questions for you since it sounds like your gaming meta is a little different from mine. From which context do you think Tsyklon should take a role of Fireteam ARO piece? In my gaming environment, it feels like other ARO pieces(Reaktion, Transductor, and Sin-eaters, Zeros, etc.) are strong enough to hold the line, while Tsyklon is hitting the deck. Zeros are capable enough at putting in the repeaters, but isn't it sometimes hard to push the unit into the enemy territory? You have to move in, make a detour when enemy skirmishers are nearby or several enemy ARO pieces are watching over the entry. You can just declare move-move regardless of being discovered, and deploy a repeater in the next order, but to me sometimes it feels like the threat range not as 'long' enough as Tsyklon's Pitcher. Thank you.
