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Interaction of Missile REMs and ECM

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Alpharious, Apr 24, 2021.

  1. Alpharious

    Alpharious Member

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    This is going to be weird, but bear with me.

    Since the skill modifiers in round brackets are mandatory, like the BS Attack (Shock), it seems that units with BS Attack (Guided) would also be making Guided attacks, even if they are shooting at something the normal way.
    What this means is that in a hypothetical scenario that totally didn't happen in my last game, if a Vertigo Zond comes out to shoot at a Xeodrone, Vertigo would get a -6 mod from ECM on top of other mods he might have.
    Please correct me if I'm wrong, maybe I'm missing something.

    Sent from my M2007J3SG using Tapatalk
     
  2. Technosaurier

    Technosaurier Member

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    During the Active Turn, they may perform a BS Attack against a target in Targeted State, without requiring LoF. They will perform a BS Roll with a +6 MOD, ignoring all other MODs except those imposed by ECM or TinBots to Guided Attacks.

    I think what you're missing is the word may. So you're not required to make a guided attack.
     
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  3. Alpharious

    Alpharious Member

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    I do believe that the word may here refers to the ability to perform the attack without LoF, but since the profile has BS Attack (Guided), all it's BS Attacks have to be classified as Guided.

    Sent from my M2007J3SG using Tapatalk
     
  4. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    ECM states "In order to use this Automatic Equipment, its owner must be the target of the Attack type listed in round brackets."

    The rules don't set out what an "Attack type" is.

    The rules for MODs set out the effects of positive MODs, negative MODs, MODs to other numerical values (Attributes, burst, etc.), and the ReRoll MOD. They don't describe any other type of MOD, including (Guided).

    So the only rule we have that tells us what (Guided) does is the BS Attack rule, which states "Troopers with the BS Attack (Guided) Skill listed on their Unit Profile" may make an attack from outside LoF with certain particular rules.

    So, I don't see any rule that says that a MOD to the BS Attack skill changes the "Attack type" of that skill. Rather, the only effect that the (Guided) MOD has in the rules is that it confers the option to make the special outside-LoF attack.

    I would conclude that only an attack made using the optional outside-LoF rules conferred by (Guided) is an attack of the "type" Guided. i.e. the (Guided) MOD only confers the ability to make a Guided attack, it doesn't transform the BS Attack skill generally into a Guided skill.
     
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  5. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    That's not the only effect that Guided has on the attack, there's also the B change and the Impact trait being mandatory.

    Admittedly this formatting disaster:
    Troopers with the BS Attack (Guided) Skill listed on their Unit Profile:
    • During the Active Turn, they may perform a BS Attack against a target in Targeted State, without requiring LoF. They will perform a BS Roll with a +6 MOD, ignoring all other MODs except those imposed by ECM or TinBots to Guided Attacks.
    • ...
    should have been organized as something like:
    Troopers with the BS Attack (Guided) Skill listed on their Unit Profile can perform a guided weapon attack. This can be done during the Active Turn, against a target in Targeted State, without requiring LoF.
    • They will perform a BS Roll with a +6 MOD, ignoring all other MODs except those imposed by ECM or TinBots to Guided Attacks.
    • ...
    You don't have to use it, but it's also not limited to just outside-LoF situations. (The Targeted model dodging into LoF won't force you to stop making guided attacks if you want that impact template or the other modifiers...)
     
  6. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    You're flat out wrong. The formatting of the effect isn't perfect (see my previous post), but it's not mandatory.
     
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  7. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    My point is the effect that the (Guided) MOD has on the BS Attack skill. My argument is that the MOD confers the option to make a special kind of attack (of which I didn't list all the characteristics), but doesn't change the "Attack type" of the unit's BS Attack skill overall. Hence only an attack made using the special Guided option has the "Attack type" of Guided.

    It's not very helpful to declare that someone is wrong, rewrite the rule to say what you think is intended, and call it a formatting issue. Basically all you're saying is "I think the answer is X" without giving a reason.

    That said, I agree with your conclusion, for the reasons I've set out.
     
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  8. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    ...I am confused.

    RAW the use of Guided isn't restricted to outside-LoF situations. It just waives the requirement that you have LoF to declare the BS Attack. You can still make Guided attacks against enemies within LoF.

    Have I got that wrong? Or am I misreading your comment?
     
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