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Taqeul Officers

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by OrderMonkey, Jan 22, 2021.

  1. Whyarecarrots

    Whyarecarrots Well-Known Member

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    DISCLAIMER - the below is my interpretation from reading the rules, not necessarily the correct one.

    I think the interpretation is because pheroware tactics all have the 'Technical Weapon' label as per the attached chart.

    https://infinitythewiki.com/Weapon_Chart

    Technical Weapon is a weapon that can be used to make a bs attack, but using wip instead of bs.

    http://infinitythewiki.com/Traits#Technical_Weapon

    So in the same way as making a BS attack with a flash pulse, the taqueul can make a BS attack using endgame.

    The difference with symbiobombs seems to be that the short skill the bomb carrier uses is not 'BS attack', it's 'Symbiobomb'.

    https://infinitythewiki.com/SymbioBomb

    Now this is all from the N4 rules annex, so may well be changed in time, because it's a very odd and confusing distinction at the moment.
     
  2. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    Yup - exactly as @Whyarecarrots posted above. Additionally to note, there is no skill for declaring a pheroware attack other than the Symbiobomb skill, which a Taquel isn't using, so it has to be BS Attack.
     
  3. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

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    Are people finding the Taquel has a home in general list templates or is it a mission specific flex pic?
    I've been trying to wrangle it into my 'default' list template that looks something like below:
    But I find that doing so creates awkwardness and I end up with too few active turn guns. I've only got one game of n4 in so far so i've not really adapted this much since late n3 when I was testing out the draal.

    Edit: I realised i'd completely forgotten to add a lt.


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]2
    SUKEUL Heavy Machine Gun, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 34)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, SymbioBomb ( | SymbioMate) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 21)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 33)
    KAMAEL (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    NIKOUL VIRAL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    KERAIL PRECEPTOR Submachine Gun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] SURDA SYMBIOBEAST Pulzar / Viral CC Weapon. (- | 8)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Sensor, Baggage) Heavy Flamethrower(+1 Dam) ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]1
    DRAAL (Minelayer) AP Marksman Rifle, D-Charges, Shock Mines / Viral Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 40)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    KAELTAR Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, SymbioBomb ( | SymbioMate) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Sensor, Baggage) Heavy Flamethrower(+1 Dam) ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Sensor, Baggage) Heavy Flamethrower(+1 Dam) ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    5.5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #23 spears, Mar 12, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2021
  4. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    This seems to be fine:


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    TAQEUL (Lieutenant [+1 Order]) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Pheroware Tactics: Endgame, Pheroware Tactics: Mirrorball / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 35)
    SUKEUL Heavy Machine Gun, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 34)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, SymbioBomb ( | SymbioMate) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 21)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    NIKOUL (Minelayer) VIRAL Sniper Rifle, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29)
    KERAIL PRECEPTOR Submachine Gun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] SURDA SYMBIOBEAST Pulzar / Viral CC Weapon. (- | 8)
    KAELTAR Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, SymbioBomb ( | SymbioMate) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, Nanopulser(+1B), E/M Mines / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 12)
    DIPLOMATIC (CC Attack [-3], Specialist Operative]) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse, Pheroware Tactics: Eraser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]1
    DRAAL (Minelayer) AP Marksman Rifle, D-Charges, Shock Mines / Viral Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 40)
    KAMAEL (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Sensor, Baggage) Heavy Flamethrower(+1 Dam) ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Sensor, Baggage) Heavy Flamethrower(+1 Dam) ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)

    4.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    If you want to keep the Gao-Rael for Kerail Smoke Tricks your best bet is probably to put it in place of the Draal and then upgrade the Kaauri to something better.

    Something like this?



    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    TAQEUL (Lieutenant [+1 Command Token]) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Pheroware Tactics: Endgame, Pheroware Tactics: Mirrorball / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 33)
    SUKEUL Heavy Machine Gun, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 34)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, SymbioBomb ( | SymbioMate) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 21)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    NIKOUL (Minelayer) VIRAL Sniper Rifle, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29)
    KERAIL PRECEPTOR Submachine Gun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] SURDA SYMBIOBEAST Pulzar / Viral CC Weapon. (- | 8)
    GREIF-OP (Surprise Attack [-3], Impersonation [IMP-2]) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1 | 20)
    KAELTAR Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, SymbioBomb ( | SymbioMate) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
    DIPLOMATIC (CC Attack [-3], Specialist Operative]) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse, Pheroware Tactics: Eraser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]1
    GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 33)
    KAMAEL (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Sensor, Baggage) Heavy Flamethrower(+1 Dam) ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Sensor, Baggage) Heavy Flamethrower(+1 Dam) ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)

    5.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Idk I don't usually run a Kerail (I feel naked without 2 Clipsos) but it doesn't seem too obtuse to fit. You can still run 3 Triads if you want but you'd have to shuffle some stuff around, pick up a third Makaul/a Taagma, etc.
     
    spears likes this.
  5. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that. Maybe having less symbiomates will make running the extra gunfighting triads less attractive, perhaps even the Nikoul gets dropped.
    At the same time the Taquel seems to suffer from the same thing the Rasail did in N3 that it unbalances the ease of building Tohaa lists. Perhaps I just need to run it a few times and learn to visualise the value in its pheroware.
     
  6. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    It's one of the reasons I actually like the Taquel outside of a Triad; you get to use your LT order to run around and KHD anything with Wounds.

    B2 WIP 14 isn't the most reliable attack, especially if the enemy has a Firewall, but DAM 13 Breaker is pretty solid for chipping away at things, and Mirrorball being Eclipse instead of White Noise means that he can be a sort of up-jumped Makaul, throwing Eclipse through walls to block ARO pieces or his own movements.

    Speaking of Mirrorball, if you haven't tried the new Igao I highly recommend it. It opens up so many attack vectors.
     
  7. IceCream

    IceCream Active Member

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    I've been finding the Taquel to be incredibly strong in just about every list I make, and the +1 order Taquel Spitfire is my go-to lieutenant. She's extremely oppressive in tighter areas of the board, and can lock down a huge area with pheroware if she has good positioning. Like Delta said, I usually either take her outside of a Triad, or play her knowing that the Triad she's in will only last a few orders, because I want to use those lieutenant orders every turn.

    There was a Tabletop Simulator Tournament that finished up about a month ago, and two of the top 10 ranking players played Tohaa, and both of them ran double Taquels in their final lists, so I'm thinking they might be pretty good. :kissing_cat:

    If you want to see those lists, check the description in this video. The lists are the ones for Pandabeastmode and Hannibal:
    [/QUOTE]
     
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  8. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    This is completely off topic but the fact that the winning list included my ABSOLUTE FAVORITE PROFILE the Greif Operator Impersonator makes me SO GODDAMN HAPPY.

    Back on topic: Double-Taquels is not a thing I've tried (or even really considered) before, but seeing the Gao-Rael in a triad with two 15-point Kaeltars is making the gears spin in my brain. The fact that the list also has 0 Clipsos and 0 Chaksa feels like utter Heresy.
     
    IceCream likes this.
  9. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

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    Thanks a bunch, I do like the look of that first one.
    Jiggled it about a bit and ended up with this, will give it a whirl to see how the taquel does.

    Tohaa OA
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]2
    SUKEUL Heavy Machine Gun, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 34)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse ( | 2x SymbioMate) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 28)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 33)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    KAELTAR Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, SymbioBomb ( | SymbioMate) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
    KERAIL PRECEPTOR Submachine Gun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] SURDA SYMBIOBEAST Pulzar / Viral CC Weapon. (- | 8)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Sensor, Baggage) Heavy Flamethrower(+1 Dam) ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Sensor, Baggage) Heavy Flamethrower(+1 Dam) ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Contender, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    SAKIEL Viral Combi Rifle, E/M Grenades / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    KAMAEL (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse ( | Deployable Repeater) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    TAQEUL (Lieutenant [+1 Order]) Spitfire, Nanopulser, Pheroware Tactics: Endgame, Pheroware Tactics: Mirrorball / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 41)
    CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    DIPLOMATIC (CC Attack [-3], Specialist Operative]) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse, Pheroware Tactics: Eraser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    4.5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    Edit: I might try to shuffle the gao rael triad into group 2 so the Taquel can pick up the triad if the sniper dies on aro duty.
     
    #29 spears, Mar 12, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2021
    IceCream likes this.
  10. IceCream

    IceCream Active Member

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    I've been meaning to try a double Taquel list. One nice thing about it is you can have the lieutenant go cause havoc by herself, and then stick the CoC one into a Triad.

    The Gao-Rael 2x Kaeltar Triad makes an incredibly good ARO piece. The Kaeltars have already gotten their value by the time they've assigned their weird little friends, so they can just sit in the back, guard your DZ, and give +1B (and usually a symbiomate) to the Gao-Rael.

    I don't really like the Chaksa outside of missions like Supremacy or Frontline. For 2-4 more points you can get a Kaauri, a Makaul, or a Krakot, and those might actually do something at some point. :joy:
     
  11. IceCream

    IceCream Active Member

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    Your list is always going to depend on your mission and your playstyle, but my Taquels haven't let me down yet. :smile: Let us know how it goes!
     
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  12. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I've just been so used to "Take the 21 point CoC Kaeltar, stick it in a fireteam as a specialist" being the default that doing the Gao-Rael triad didn't even occur to me!

    Too stuck in N3, it seems. Time to put on my listbuilding cap and start brainstorming!
     
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  13. Rumdog

    Rumdog Well-Known Member

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    Finally managed to try Taqeul out yesterday! Ultimately lost the mission, but was blown away by how amazing this fellow performed. Sadly my Kriigel was vaporized by Noctifer with ML during this game, so I wasn't able to fully appreciate his abilities, but I can see the potential. I honestly think that this is what our "hackers" should have been from the start.

    Has anyone heard if CB are planning to release Taqeul miniature before restarting whole faction..?
     
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  14. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    Only in our collective dreams, alas.
     
  15. melkiach

    melkiach PheroBoosted

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    i didn't expect it until Tohaa rerun
     
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  16. jmmelo

    jmmelo Well-Known Member

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    They did give us a Spec Ops model with simbio armor....
     
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  17. Rumdog

    Rumdog Well-Known Member

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    Well, yeah...and she is a great proxy for Kerail - symbiont armor, smg and jumping pose:grimacing:
     
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  18. pixxle

    pixxle Member

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    To give also some contra to the discussion :)

    I personally must say that the Takeul is somehow broken and does not fit the game.

    Ava 2 ZOC guys which can kill everything other than remotes shouldnt be in infinity. This is too OP in the eyes of board control when the enemy has no stealth troops there is absolutely no chance to come close to this troop when for example on the 4th floor of a building in the middle of the map. (and it isnt even hackable)
    I like what they did to jammers (disposable 2) so i absolutely do not understand why this is now possible, is for me the same level of annoyance like jammers. (...or impersonators with 3 lives :)

    Tohaa is already very powerfull in my eyes with tons of HP, unlimited link teams + symbio bombs/mates.

    For example in my playgroup i have some weaker players who only perform good with Tohaa (as a reference mostly everyone in our group has all factions...i know we are fan boys of Infinity :) ) so with N4 Tohaa is in general a little unbalanced in my humble opinion.
     
  19. Rocker

    Rocker Well-Known Member

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    Spotlight+guided missiles will take care of it.

    That said, I agree with you, but I don't find it more broken than hacker-network+spotlight+guided, which imo also should be toned down.
     
  20. nehemiah

    nehemiah Well-Known Member

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    Worth noting that Pheroware attacks are coms attacks, so things like Tinbots, and Fairy Dust can be used to help protect against them. You can also spotlight in response for a face to face. I also do not know how you can be on the 4th floor of a building and still within 8" of things on the ground. Granted being even 7" above the ground is still a difficult position to root out.
     
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