Reactive Trooper A is in Isolated state. Active trooper B declares a speculative attack against trooper A. Trooper A doesn't have LoF and is outside of ZoC. Trooper A declares Reset ARO. https://infinitythewiki.com/Trooper_Activation#ARO:_Automatic_Reaction_Order https://infinitythewiki.com/Dodge https://infinitythewiki.com/Reset Is the ARO valid? If we can extrapolate from Dodge requirements, then the Reset isn't a valid ARO because template weapons are mentioned in Dodge but not in Reset. Then again you can never be sure if about infinity rules...
Yes it is. You have a valid ARO because you've been hit by a Template. So you pass the check at Step 5. The Reactive Requirement for Reset is that you have a valid ARO, so you pass the check at Step 6.
Yes, you can Reset versus a Speculative Attack, because you are the target of a template attack which validates Dodge and thus gives you a valid ARO. Note that the way you're interpreting the rules would make the "have valid ARO" meaningless for both Dodge and Reset. Note also that there is one exception here and that is attempting to Dodge versus Hacking Attacks through Repeaters as a Hacking Area that is not also an active trooper's Zone of Control only allows Hacking AROs.
So let me get this straight. This sentence: "It is affected by a Template Weapon, or is the target of a Hacking Program or other Comms Attack" means that: - Reset ARO is valid because affected by Template - Dodge ARO isn't valid because target of a Hacking Program Are you sure that you aren't making this up as you go?
Dodge is a valid ARO when you've been targetted by a Hacking Program or Comms Attack. At Step 5 you ask, do they have a valid ARO? Yes (being affected by a Hacking Program or Comms Attack is one of the conditions for a valid ARO). At Step 6 you ask, are the requirements of the Skill met? Yes, having a valid ARO is the only requirement of Dodging in Reactive. They're independent questions, both must answer Yes or the skill is resolved as an Idle.
Not quite. Let me try to correct and clarify my answer. As per https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/provisional-rules-answer-how-do-hacking-area-aros-work.38312/ Having a Hacking ARO due to Hacking Area, but not Zone of Control, does not validate a Dodge ARO. If your trooper is moving around inside a Repeater, your opponent's Hackers will not get a valid Dodge ARO. I am actually not certain about if being targeted by a Comms Attack through a Hacking Area, but without active trooper in Zone of Control, will validate a Dodge declaration or not due to how Hacking Areas are clarified to work.
@inane.imp i think that more honest reading is that the requirements for Reset and Dodge ARO are listed in the respective skills not in Automatic reaction order. Reset is valid ARO for Hacking attack. Dodge is valid ARO for Template attack. --> Reset isn't a valid ARO for Template attack and Dodge isn't a valid ARO for Hacking attack. You can ofc declare non-LoF and non-engaged AROs all day, they just don't necessarily do anything.
But let's be constructive here. Just remove* the last sentence from Automatic reaction Order (-> Reset and Dodge are only valid AROs when targeted by respective attack) or remove the last sentece from Dodge and Reset skills (-> Both Reset and Dodge are valid AROs when targeted by template or hacking attack). * Or just say that those sentences don't matter. Whatever.
Both Dodge and Reset have Requirements which are met in the reactive turn if the trooper "has a valid ARO," with no additional Requirements. The ARO rule says that a trooper has a valid ARO if "It is affected by a Template Weapon, or is the target of a Hacking Program or other Comms Attack." Seems pretty clear that if you're either affected by a template weapon or targeted by a hacking program or comms attack, you can declare Dodge or Reset. There's nothing stopping you from Resetting when templated or Dodging when hacked.
You want that rules work that way, but obviously they don't. Or perhaps they do. Also it would create an odd interaction where shooting a template weapon from ZVZ (using MSV) would allow Reset ARO but shooting a non-template weapon from ZVZ wouldn't. You need explosions to press reboot? ;) I mean obviously I can be completely wrong here. The ARO rules aren't very well written. Clarification would be nice. Summoning @ijw
@Mahtamori you remember incorrectly. In N3 you could declare Reset and even if you won, you could fail guts. This was removed in N4, which ofc has huge implications.
If you expand the scope of the question in ways I couldn't predict, sure, but the only thing that's really changed when hit from outside LOF and outside ZoC is that you can Reset if hit by a template...
If the explosions are from guided missiles locked on to your signals, of course you're going to try to reboot to stop the next missile locking on.
There's 2 SEPARATE questions. Do you have a valid ARO? Do you meet the requirements of Skill? 1. Being targeted by a Hacking Attack means that you have a VALID ARO because it is affected by a Template Weapon, or is the target of a Hacking Program or other Comms Attack. The is irrespective of how you are in the Hacking Area. 2. Having a valid ARO is a REQUIREMENT of Dodge and Reset. That's it. The clarification in the FAQ says that someone activating in a Hacker's Hacking Area (but outside your ZOC) grants them a valid ARO but only with Reset or a Hacking Program because they have a Special Skill, weapon, or piece of Equipment allowing it to react to enemy actions without LoF.
@inane.imp You effectively ignoring the requirements listed in Reset and Dodge. It would be a different thing if there was a line in Reset requirements that said "They are affected by a Template Weapon". And I'm not saying that trooper A can't declare Reset ARO in this situation. He could totally do that. Only LoF (and now also Engaged) related AROs have limitations regarding declarations because of reasons. All other illegal ARO declarations are fine. Illegal AROs just turn to Idle ARO, if requirements aren't met. Surely you understand why I think that your reading of rules isn't honest? And ofc this argument comes from ijw:s ... less than complete answer that Mahtamori already linked. This thread is an attempt to force him to complete the ruling. I'm not holding my breath.
I'm not ignoring the requirements I'm focussing on the only relevant requirement: they have a valid ARO and so the meet a requirement of the Skill. Done. Equally I'm not discussing whether they're allowed to declare Dodge (I mean you haven't even discussed whether they're on horizontal terrain or in a IMM state: we need to know this if we are to accurately answer that question). You asked "is the ARO valid?" The test for whether an ARO is considered valid is in Trooper Activation. They pass that test. For an ARO to function you need to make 3 separate checks. 1. Immediately prior to declaration you need to check if anything prevents you declaring any AROs or some specific AROs. 2. At Step 5, you need to check whether you received a valid ARO and, if the ARO was declared at Step 4, whether an earlier valid ARO was received at Step 2. 3. At Step 6, you need to check whether the requirements of the skill are met. The thing with question 3 is that you don't, necessarily, need to meet all of the requirements. It depends on the phrasing which requirements need to be met. Troopers can only Reset if at least one of these is true: * They are the Active Trooper. * In the Reactive Turn, they have a valid ARO, or are targeted by a Hacking Program or other Comms Attack. (See FAQs & Errata.) Let's look at this in detai: They aren't the Active Trooper. It is the Reactive Turn, they do have a valid ARO but they have not been targetted by a Hacking Program or a Comms Attack. So, is at least one of the requirements true? Yes / No. If you think the answer is yes, then Reset will function. If you think the answer is no then I honestly don't know how to help.
Actually, I think that's the wrong way to discuss this. I think the more pertinent question is: Do you understand that the question "is this ARO valid" is answered at Step 5 of the OES and does not at all depend on the requirements of the ARO that was declared?
Not sure which Requirements you think are being ignored. But, both skills have "at least one of" clauses in their Requirements. So yes, for either skill, once you find that one of the Requirements has been met, you ignore the other Requirements. That's what "at least one" means.
Yes, I understand that you could read OES step 5 as the final arbiter on what is a valid ARO and what’s not (and ignore specific Reset and Dodge requirements). If thats the case, you are totally correct. I have never claimed anything to the contrary. I just think that that’s purposefully a wrong way to read the rules. You are acting on bad faith. Step 5 obviously refers to more specific Reset and Dodge skill requirements. It’s a fluff text on its own and has no bearing in the game. Look, it’s pointless for us to argue here. We both obviously understand what the other is saying. We both could be correct. Let’s wait for @ijw to settle the issue once and for all, right?
