Anything with E/M weaponry. Or even a coordinated attack of E/M and ADHL. Unless you don't have to kill that 8+ ARM chunk for MPs there's still no point in wasting orders by chewing through its 3 STR. At least that's how I treated TAGs most of the time during N3 (on other occasions I simply possessed them).
So for clarity you're suggesting replacing a 72pt single troop szalamandra with four troops ranging from 22-56pts?
Here's a sample list, and one I ran on the weekend. Obviously it'll always be a bit more complex than just a straight swap and drop but in every game I had to bring down something or multiple somethings along the lines of a core linked missile HI or marksman sniper. A list needs one or more tools for that. In terms of group slots especially there's not a lot Nomads have that's more efficient than the Szally. Bonnies and Clydes V2 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 PUPPET MASTERS Submachine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) PUPPETBOT (BS Attack [Shock]) AP Marksman Rifle / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 14) PUPPETBOT (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 12) JAZZ Hacker & BILLIE undefined / undefined. (0.5 | 24) JAZZ (Hacker) Submachine Gun, Pitcher, Cybermines / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 18) BILLIE Flash Pulse, E/M Mines / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 6) ZOE & Π-WELL undefined / undefined. (0 | 44) ZOE (Hacker) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 25) PI-WELL Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 19) ZONDBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) REM RACER (RemDriver [+1 Dam, +1 WIP, +3 BTS]) Light Shotgun / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 12) SALYUT (Hacker, EVO Hacking Device) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 15) MORAN (Repeater) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse, D-Charges, Crazykoala ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17) REAKTION ZOND Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 25) VERTIGO ZOND Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 17) GROUP 2 4 2 SZALAMANDRA Hyper-Rapid Magnetic Cannon, Heavy Flamethrower / CC Weapon. (2 | 72) SZALAMANDRA PILOT Contender(+1B) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 0) LIBERTO Submachine Gun, Chain-colt / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 9) MODERATOR (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 9) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army If the Szalamandra is bad/mediocre, what replaces her?
Eesh 16" optimal range isn't what I'm after to engage a core linked hollow man 30" away across an open field. But, fair point, Nomads have AVA3 akrylat kannone bounty hunters for 12pts each. Just need combat group slots to fit them but I think there might actually be something there - especially since they'll often randomly roll up good shit that makes them useful otherwise. EDIT: ok so in a ruthless display of por que no los dos I ended up still fitting a Szalamandra anyway but I'm sure if I cut her I could fit some interesting business. Weaponised Gambling ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 PUPPET MASTERS Submachine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) PUPPETBOT (BS Attack [Shock]) AP Marksman Rifle / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 14) PUPPETBOT (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 12) JAZZ Hacker & BILLIE undefined / undefined. (0.5 | 24) JAZZ (Hacker) Submachine Gun, Pitcher, Cybermines / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 18) BILLIE Flash Pulse, E/M Mines / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 6) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) MORAN (Repeater) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse, D-Charges, Crazykoala ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17) MORAN (Repeater) Boarding Shotgun, Flash Pulse, Crazykoala ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17) BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 12) BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 12) BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 12) KRIZA BORAC Heavy Machine Gun / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 54) GROUP 2 4 2 SZALAMANDRA Hyper-Rapid Magnetic Cannon, Heavy Flamethrower / CC Weapon. (2 | 72) SZALAMANDRA PILOT Contender(+1B) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 0) LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 8) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 9) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 9) MODERATOR (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 9) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Psst, ADHL Jags also have Panzerfausts. The correct response is "Shut up Inane Imp, you're hurting not helping. You know you agree with me."
The proposition was using a mobility kill weapon to deal with overwatch or dominant keypieces, rather than attempt conventional destruction, but also shut up :P
Or even just 6. As in Morlock ;) But yes the 72 Points can be distributed on the whole army. I'd invest in those two listed below, both are versatile enough to be included in lists anyways. If used in a coordinated attack you could even couple them with the Vertigo Zond (or any other ML trooper) in order to maybe force a BS Attack from the TAG onto the Zond instread of a dodge. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 2 PROWLER Combi Rifle, Light Flamethrower, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 35) BRAN DO CASTRO Combi Rifle, E/Mitter / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 33) 0 SWC | 68 Points Open in Infinity Army
That's an alternative, and it's functional. But equally the Salzy works - particularly when paired with an Uberfalls or similar mobile low cost attackers that can either exploit null ARO plays or force aggressive ARO presence for Salzy to efficiently remove.
More bodies isnt that much of an option when you already have the 14 troopers you want and 70 odd pts left. N4 is a different game than N3 was.
Coordinating 4 x Panzerfausts or ADHL is a decent way to deal with those hard linked ARO pieces. If you dont have 4 x Panzefaust Jaguars but have a Vertigo Zond you can also sub in some Forward Observer or two with a couple of Panzerfausts. You then have the potential to Target that ARO piece as well as Panzerfausts.
While true, that's a different build and a different way to solve the same problem. It doesn't invalidate the first option. The question isn't "can we do this another way" but "do Nomad TAGs do this well? ". Salzy does, the others do not. Geckos do something else that isn't really normal TAG-play.
That's fair, the Szalamandra is definitely capable against most ARO pieces but linked ARO pieces can still give it a lot of trouble, even with B5. Some times it is worth targeting the ARO model first to give the Szalamandra BS20 before defensive mods.
I played nomads 2 seasons ago and I loved nomad TAG. The Lizard in particular is a very good tool. Not costly. Multi HMG so good damage and firepower and the grenade launcher is quite a nice tool to have (to force your opponent camo marker to dodge, remove a fireteam, kill an HVT...) Szalamendra is nice but a bit bland. It's a good long range superioty tool but it's lacking in originality I did not took time to check the N4 TAG : the Gecko went from nice to very good. B4 D15 multi marksman rifle is a very nice weapon to have, even more on a 56 points platform with a nice specialist pilot (with B5 short range weapon) to do some objectives
Couple issues with the Lizard are that its grenade launcher got a bit worse in N4 (and so did targeted for spec fire) It seems ok for the odd spec shot situationally, but guided seems often a far better option. Then there's the fact that Sally is the same cost with a better gun, BTS 9 and a KHD pilot. Which just seems all kinds of wrong. I dunno whats up with the pts formula there but I can't really see a reason to bring a Lizard over Sally in Vanilla ever. I guess the 0.5 SWC might make a slight difference occasionally to what you can fit (Nomads do like hackers), but not that often. In Bakunin where you dont have any other choice for a TAG and you do have B3 core linked Gizmokits, I definately see it as a valid choice. It just should be a few pts cheaper than Sally to make it viable in Vanilla.
Heh, that's some odd N3 thinking in there, mate. Never been on the receiving end of a Sphinx, have we? Now, as for the Nomad TAGs, I used to enjoy them, but nowadays I kinda feel they're lackluster. The Geckos are neat but they handle more like an S5 HI like the Kriza or the Taskmaster than an actual TAG, and man, I just can't get the Szally to work. It is good on paper, and I can readily see all the great things about it: Big gun, better than average hacking defense, etc. I just can't get it to work for me. That being said, I would stay away from the Iguana right now. It just doesn't compete well with the Szally or the Geckos. But those two probably are safe bets you can use if you dig using TAGs. Hell, I'd wager you can fit both on a list.
You absolutely can. I think the Gecko + Salzy list is better than a Tik + Dragao ASA list, and that's mostly to do with the fact that you can fit in better support.
You can easily reach the 15 troopers cap with an Avatar, the "more bodies" argument is an outdated N3 argument. (Using the Avatar as an example since it's the most expensive TAG in the game)
But why though? We're Nomads we're smarter than this. We have means to do it that don't require us to commit a third of our force to one location or hope the table is open open enough to allow shots from multiple angles for this tactic. You can abuse WN to coord run a jag out in the open forcing them to dodge while the Szally opens up on them (puppets can do this better if you get them close enough) The same but with the Intruder with smoke (Though good luck getting a HMG to kill anything above arm 4 in cover) You can sling a pitcher (or fast panda) up there and spotlight to drop a missile on it with complete impunity You can FO through WN or smoke (Potentially with triangulated fire too), then drop missiles on it You can get a camo murder piece up nice and close and blow it away before moving on to everything else they have back there. Apply Uberfall to face, between the dodge bonuses and eclipse they can get most places without issue. Co-ordinating disposable weapon fire is for the lesser factions, those pieces are better off being used as defensive chaff to slow the opponent down a little. and have 18 orders, 13 of which can be ran through that monster and this is also before counting the other TA pieces or impetuous models in the list.
