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I know.... plastic infinity

Discussion in 'News' started by Shyvax, Apr 5, 2021.

  1. TenNoBushi

    TenNoBushi Well-Known Member

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    It's more three years than one (renders were revealed in march 2018).
    To give a comparison, the CHA starter was revealed in may 2017 and was discontinued in january 1st this year.
    So a 3/4 years rotation for some products.
     
  2. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Bear in mind that the bulk of sales for most Infinity models happen in the first six months of the model’s lifespan.
     
  3. Cervantes3773

    Cervantes3773 Rogue AI
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    One of the considerations with plastics is what their cost does to the game itself. If CB has to put down a certain sum of money for a production run of X Fusiliers, then there may also need to be a shift in the game to encourage the sale of that many Fusiliers.

    You can see this at work with other Companies that shifted from metal to plastic, their model count increased with it.

    As someone who (inexplicably) owns 9+ Intruders, 8+ Hellcats, and 2+ of every Nomad REM - I want Infinity to stay a skirmish game.

    I like (and prefer) metal models, and if CB can make their models in plastic at the the standards I expect of their metal models, and without it affecting the game, then I've got no beef with plastics. But if they have to shift model count or something, then... no thank you.
     
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  4. Cervantes3773

    Cervantes3773 Rogue AI
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    I remember Bos sharing a slide about that at a Gen Con seminar. Everything spikes at release. Starters/big boxes have a slower(ish) burn, but everything else tends to fall precipitously.
     
  5. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Another thing you need to consider is metal models can and are been melted back to their original form with minimal loss and can be reused, Plastic models cannot do that, this has and offers a lot of practical opportunities, slow sellers can be retired from production and be melted back to be reused for fast sellers and there is practically no inventory of unsold SKU that need to be either destroyed or forcefully moved by becoming a necessity to buy them.

    Remember an SKU in stock will be taxed by the government, if not destroyed one way or another.
     
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  6. Time Bandit

    Time Bandit Vulnerability (Total)

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    Please for the love of god, stick to metal! Infinity produces the best wargame miniatures, bar none. I play a lot of 40k too, I work with resin and plastic regularly, and I also have a 3d printer. I prefer working on Infinity minis to all of these options, by a lot. Resin is frail and often messy; plastic sprue kits take hours and hours to assemble and clean; 3d printing is dangerous and must be treated with respect. There are only two downsides to metal, as far as I can see: 1) chipping, which just means you have to matt varnish your minis with a few coats, and 2) the tough material makes conversions quite a lot harder to achieve. On the plus side sculptors are free to realise insane detail and dynamic poses and minis assemble simply in 10 minutes.

    In short why on earth would you want CB do anything that might mess with their excellent design and production?
     
  7. Time Bandit

    Time Bandit Vulnerability (Total)

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    Great post, hadn't thought of it like this before.
     
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  8. jake richmond

    jake richmond Well-Known Member

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    Why would you assume incompentance? CB doesn't have a track record of incompentance. They release about 80-100 products a year, and the last majority of those releases go really well, and have for the 10+ years I've been playing. So assuming incompentance seems uncharitable, at best.

    I mean, what is the basis for your assumption? Since we already established you have no evidence (and haven't even presented a theory). What do you think this incompetence looks like? CB released the Magisters kit and sold it for over a year (possibly longer). No problems there, so whatever this incompentance that you've imagined was, it didn't happen with the release, or in the year following it. Can you use that brain to illustrate this incompentance for the rest of us? Enlighten us?

    Do you think its possible that CB might have had a good reason to retire that kit? Do you think its likely that, in the year+ after releasing that kit they probably made enough money on it that they were comfortable letting it go out of print so they could do something different with Military Orders and the Teutons? Do you think its possible that even though you clearly have no idea how their business works, they actually do, and when they make a decision its likely for a good reason?
     
  9. Cthulhu363

    Cthulhu363 May his passage cleanse the world.

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    *redacted*
     
    #49 Cthulhu363, Apr 9, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
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  10. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Sigh... Guys can we not go into personal attacks on yet another thread?

    On the topic of plastics, I really think most people asking for plastics have either good intentions or good reasons to ask for it. But I am firmly on the camp that it wouldn't be economically viable. Whether CB is good or bad in managing their finances is irrelevant (although I do think they are at least as good as any other company that has stayed afloat as long as they have).

    Insulting the company's policies and the people behind them will not make any arguments look more compelling.
     
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  11. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    One huge issue for me for plastic would be the environmental footprint.

    Based on experience with GW mini, plastic miniatures generate a lot of plastic waste (all the unusable parts of the sprue).
    Also i'm working quite hard at home to eliminate plastic from my life (because, let's be realistic, even recyclable plastic is not recycled today), so buying plastic miniatures won't sit well with me.
    I'm already having a bit of an issue with the amount of plastic waste (plastic blisters, bags, foam) generated by CB packaging (compared for example to GCT packaging), adding even more plastic waste will be a big issue for me.

    Add to that how much of a pain in the ass I always found plastic miniature to build. I tried GW or Warmachine models in the past and found 2-4 parts CB (or Rackham or Hell Dorado) metal models less of a pain in the ass to build than 6-12 plastics models

    If Corvus Belli were to move from metal to plastic, I may consider moving to another game
     
  12. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

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    PVC being flexible while hot, but not warping into blobs, is reason why PVC allows small undercuts, while HIPS allows none (worse, 90deg is not valid even if mathematically the surfaces could slide fine).

    OTOH, there are more options than HIPS and PVC. Old CB 15 mm miniatures are currently being produced in plastic.
    [​IMG]
    With less separate parts, faster to assemble.

    Edit: "than" typo.
     
    #52 Mob of Blondes, Apr 10, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
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  13. Alfy

    Alfy Well-Known Member

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    I’m a big fan of metal minis, but nowadays, it’s mostly for the heft when I play. I’m a fan of Greebo games, a small qualitative Italian outfit mostly specialized in Bloodbowl minis. They used to do metal only, and by their own account, they couldn’t match the same quality with resin or plastic. But they worked at it - for their own reasons, and eventually produced their first KS available in metal and resin, and the latter was stunning.

    Their own arguments are: better quality, more dynamic poses, easier to assemble (in fact, most of the minis are now monobloc). And it’s hard to argue with the final result.

    They can be tons of arguments against plastic or resin and I can sympathize with the environmental ones, but there is no question that recent advancements in resin 3D printing has overcome what can be done with metal. If the goal is to have the best quality minis, with the best details and the most interesting poses, then CB should forget about metal and start working at overhauling their production. And personally, I’m sure they’re looking at it, it’s more a question of developing the internal know-how and financial considerations.
     
  14. Daireann

    Daireann Well-Known Member

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    My position in this question is very hardy.

    Only metal.
    It is heavy, well detailed, reliable and durable material. CB uses good alloy.
    I feel safe about my miniatures, and they look like something for long years.
    Actually, it is hard for me to use something else now.

    Plastic looks fragile and easy could be broken, could melt cause of some things.
    If we take plastic like Aristeia, there are lots of parts, that are bent and looks not presentable.
    That’s why I am not playing Aristeia. I like the game, but I want my favorite characters in metal.
    Reliable and high quality material.

    “But you don’t understand. It is tabletop game. The most important part is rules and system.”
    I don’t like this arguments. There are people like me, that also happy to see grate sculpts that found grate representation. Others could play with sticks and rocks.

    To talk about resin... this material is more fragile that plastic. Truly sh-t.

    So, thank whatever it is, that this game is metal miniatures of high quality, high class.
    Not perfect, but near it! And I think, I would rather forget about game if this material part of it would change too something plastic or worse (resin).

    That’s my thoughts about it. Thank you for attention :)
     
  15. zapp

    zapp Well-Known Member

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    I 100% agree.
     
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  16. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I'm like, 90% on the side of metal. Where I wouldn't mind plastic is the TAGs. They are big enough to still have good detail. Other than them, metal for everything else.
     
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  17. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I agree... for the most part. Leaving aside I have a 3D printer and I'm subscribed to some patreons (mostly for cyberpunk models, which are harder to find than 40k proxies, or fantasy models, or even monsters), and the detail is quite impressive, I simple can't justify the new Maghariba in metal (the new Avatar is also quite heavy, as is the Gorgos) because of weight (as an aside, I move the miniatures inside a metal box, having glued n52 4x2 magnets to all of the bases). The heaviest models are the exceptions I'd vote to move to other formats.
     
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  18. libr4rian

    libr4rian Member

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    +1 metal is amazing.

    “Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
    ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
     
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  19. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    They actually use their own alloy.
     
  20. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    [​IMG]
     
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