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Modest Proposal to improve White Banner Army list variety and faction identity

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by the huanglong, Mar 15, 2021.

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  1. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Look if we're willing to go down a crazy route, you make them regular, give them TacAw, then give them Fireteam: Triad

    Now the basic 5pt Monk costs 12 points each. It'd definitely be a unique reason to play WB over Vanilla.

    I'll also say as much as I want Gong the fuck out of this sectorial along with Shang Ji, I don't think it can afford for him to go without other countermeasures against uber MSV AROs being added. I've certainly found him to be one of the main units propping IA up, and more Albedo wouldn't go amiss for Yu Jing in general.

    I think Jing Qo is a perfect candidate to pick up Albedo.
     
    #61 Triumph, Apr 4, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  2. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of some White Banner ONLY troops. Normal Shaolin for vanilla and special ones for WB.

    I want a special Liang Kia, or maybe Qo that has Inspiring Leadership and can make a team with Shaolin. It's pretty simple and forces you to take them in order to make the team. Just like a Celestial guard with control device. But if they die, they become Irregular and Impetuous again.

    BTW, How is everyone finding the Hundun after a year of it? I used it few times and he did pretty poorly. And now I usually find myself always replacing him with something else. The Kunai actually beats him out on the sniper even though he has BS13. The Kunai has Mim-6 and Climbing+. The same with the same with the Shock Marksman because it also has FD +4". The Guilang has the ability to set up in more advantageous places. I found his ARM3 means almost nothing. And the Hidden Deployment hasn't been that great. But then again I've only used him the few times. I feel he needs something like Climb+. Something I thought would be cool is if they give him Surprise Shot -6. Minelayer would also be good. But they need to put the Ambush into Ambush Unit.
     
  3. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Eclipse grenades might also be a good choice for her, given she actually has Ph. It would make her stand out in Yu Jing and be a vanilla consideration as well.
     
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  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    The MSR profile isn't worth taking. I don't like the Marksman rifle because it doesn't hit hard enough to hurt heavy targets, and it doesn't have the right range bands to hunt mimetic skirmishers and stuff who often need to be cleared out of tight spaces. If the unit had a backup gun like an assault pistol or a LSG to handle the 8" band I'd be more interested.

    The HRL profile continues to be a pain for sectorials to play into. Basically it's strongest against link teams, but not particularly good against solo rambo pieces. The real trick with the HRL profile is learning when to reveal it and when to hold onto it.
     
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  5. SpectralOwl

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    Used one for the first time recently, the sniper variant. Took a shot at a Marut in ARO to buy time for a Ninja to engage. It died immediately, but that Ninja would have been toast if I hadn't had something in HD able to take the shot and the Ninja went on to drop the Marut in CC, assuring victory. To be honest that was about the worst thing it could have gone FTF with though. I do put a lot of value in the BS13; I've played NCA for years and the sheer number of misses from ambushing Hexas beggared belief. You get a lot of opportunities to shoot at units that can't fight back if you set up a HD sniper well (especially against button pushers or trailing Fireteam members), so ensuring the one easy shot can hit is more important to me than fancy Mimetism.
     
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Your opponent TBH should've just totally ignored the MSR shot and contested the Ninja's dodge. The Marut has enough armour and wounds to tank a hit, kill the Ninja, then return its attention to the Hundun. The MSR doesn't have stun ammo anymore so it's a clear lower priority to the Ninja jumping on the TAG.
     
  7. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    HRL is a noctifier, plain and simple
    It wins you a game against an inexperienced player playing a Sectorial by itself, it is a massive pain in the ass even for the good player because he needs to account that engaging anything in your list might reveal a BS13 HRL as additional ARO and eats orders for smoke.
    If it survives it is a decent unit to make long shots in active, like stacking -6 (always recamo) on TR bots and fugazis.
     
    #67 fatherboxx, Apr 5, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
    the huanglong likes this.
  8. SpectralOwl

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    He figured as such after the game, it was a bit of a desperation move from me since the Ninja already failed a Dodge engage against the Karkata when he activated it to try and grab an antenna and I saw an opportunity to lock down the Marut uncontested. I think he was worried about getting the Marut damaged since it was an obvious LT, so he split Burst to try and avoid damage and the Ninja got in while the Hundun died. It wasn't too much of a bad idea anyway since this was late into the turn and I had a Su-Jian within an order's move, so he needed every bit of durability he could get. It's also worth noting that the player in question has something of a habit of leaving important units over-extended and hasn't seen a CC Attack from my Yu Jing since Oniwaban were a thing YJ could do (thanks CB), so that particular practice game served its purpose well for him.

    A White Banner unit that actually earned its spot was the Guilang Minelayer, guy died straight away to TAG fire but dropping a Repeater on a midfield rooftop completely denied a flank to the enemy TAG and Dakini link, funneling them right into the Ninja and Hundun, and the Mine he put down on deployment kept anything that could clear it off the roof. If White Banner could get itself a decent linked ARO I could see it making very good use of that kind of area denial.
     
  9. Pinky

    Pinky Well-Known Member

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    But this means you are taking a Lazarus so I don't think it's a good example XD
     
  10. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    We'll get a model for it soon, right?
     
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  11. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Right after I finish converting and painting a proxy for it.
     
  12. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Is that a trick question? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
     
  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I've been sitting here trying to construct WB lists for the last 4 hours? Fuck me they are an awkward sectorial to build a list for.
     
  14. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    WBA's biggest achievement was making me excited for Invincible Army.
     
  15. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    It was worse before N4. But still difficult when you are so limited. I've made a bunch of lists for missions and I think I've only one that had any Ye Mao it it. That was Biotechvore because of the combo of BTS6 and Super jump. Also, forget about the Super Jump if you put a wildcard in with them.
     
  16. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    just slap 2 long yas and hundun, zhanshi+tiangou+shangji hmg, 2-3 monks and whatever the hell you want
     
  17. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Ok, flesh this out then we'll talk about it



    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]1
    ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
    ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
    ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
    TIAN GǑU 1st Section (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) AP Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 49)
    LÓNG YÁ (Minelayer) Panzerfaust(+1B), Flammenspeer(+1B), Submachine Gun, AP Mines / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 17)
    LÓNG YÁ (Minelayer) Panzerfaust(+1B), Flammenspeer(+1B), Submachine Gun, AP Mines / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 17)
    ZHANSHI (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
    HÙNDÙN (X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27)

    4 SWC | 192 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  18. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    here is a universal/generic wb list


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    ZHANSHI MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 18)
    SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) AP Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 49)
    SHÀNG JÍ (Lieutenant) MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
    ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    ZHANSHI (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    TIAN GǑU 1st Section (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    LÓNG YÁ (Minelayer) Panzerfaust(+1B), Flammenspeer(+1B), Submachine Gun, AP Mines / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 17)
    LÓNG YÁ Panzerfaust(+1B), Flammenspeer(+1B), Submachine Gun, AP Mines / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 16)
    GŬILÁNG (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Shock Mines ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 30)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 6)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    GŬILÁNG (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines ( | Deployable Repeater) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 27)
    WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 6)
    HÙNDÙN (X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse ( ) / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    can replace shangji LT with HRL if you enjoy losing to Duroc
     
  19. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    So, speaking of awkward list construction. You now have a fireteam that contains the LT. It doesn't want to spar in the middle of the table, because it exposes the LT (who is also hackable) but also doesn't have the raw power in orders to run the length of the table and deliver a crushing blow to your opponent by diving their DZ on turn 1. We've got a Guilang Hacker, but he's the only midfield specialist so he may frequently find himself too precious to expose on ARO duties. The Guilang also has a questionable value in their repeater net with only two repeaters at their disposal, and without a Son-Bae there is little to no efficiency in attempting to play aggressively with the repeaters because they can't threaten to deliver a strong enough blow in a reasonable amount of orders.

    Your list is a Bolt or a Grenzer away from shitting itself. It's equally awful against the mimetic non marksmanship snipers as well

    All of your firepower is concentrated in one single model. You are a single casualty away from catastrophic failure and being forced to commit a questionable LT to lead the fight. This is very much what I mean about awkward. The list doesn't handle any enemies particularly well and has very few answers to gear checks and mediocre order efficiency.

    The only thing it does do is sit in its DZ and present a moderately annoying target to push into, in the DZ. That doesn't win you games, the list is clunky and doesn't have the tools to either break out via force or is malleable enough to slip threats through your opponent's defenses.
     
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  20. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    The most awkward thing I've run into this with this sectorial after working with it all night is it doesn't project force very well, its main link is clunky and not particularly order efficient, and the lack of LT choices is partially to blame. Seriously sorting out the LT for White Banner and winding up with a dudd of an LT order feels almost as fucking annoying as doing it for Nomads, but it doesn't come with the benefits of white noise or the ability to fart pitchers and missiles from one end of the table to the other, so I'm still forced to cross the table through brute force to get damage down on priority targets.

    So you wind up with this big clunky fire team alot of the time with a shit LT to boot, and you're trying to leverage skirmishers to open your game for you because you don't wanna get the link involved too early in the game. At which point I'm conceding that my lists suck compared to just reformatting them to take advantage of Vanilla's much deeper roster of skirmishers.
     
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