The discord couldn't figure this one out, so i'm moving it into here. Parvati steps out, kazak declares aro shoot, parvati declares engineer on herself. both rolls are successful. what happens? there seems to be 2 different engineering modes, one heals 1 structure, the other removes unconscious state, which also happens to restore structure, and has the subrule for remote presence that lets it heal until the target is at 1 structure. Related question: parvati moves, enemy oblivions, parvati engineers to fix it? Related question: parvati moves, enemy flashpulses, parvati engineers to fix it?
Hell if I know but I'd love to hear an answer. If it works like Protheion you'd just take the difference between wounds inflicted and str repaired and apply it to her.
isnt this basically the old doctor dodge from N3? If so you would heal yourself then take a point of damage, or the other way around, either way she would be left with one 1str.
Wouldn't the engineering be invalid as she is neither unconscious nor lacking a STR point when applying the skill as all actions are resolved simultaneously and the newly inflicted wound does not count?
All of this happens in step 6.1 of Trooper Activation. 6.1. Effects: Players apply all effects of successful Skills, Special Skills, and pieces of Equipment, and make Saving Rolls, any Dodge movement or Alert. Due to the usual Infinity thing of everything happening all at once, Engineer is applied at the same time as Saving Rolls are made. BUT Engineer requires the damage to be done or the State to be present to do anything. So with the result of the saves still in limbo until 6.1 quantum state is resolved you can never repair a Wound or a State inflicted in the same Order.
There are no restrictions for declaring engineer. You can totally try to remove states that aren't there or repair structure that isn't damaged. And what is this quantum thing that's not a rule?
You can totally declare Engineer, no problem with that. The problem with your argumentation is that you need the States or the damage already be present at the very start of 6.1 when EVERYTHING fires at the very same time and NOTHING has resolved yet, especially not the ARM/BTS rolls that will determine if something is damaged, Unconscious, Isolated etc. At the time when Engineer is applied none of that has happened for that Order. It's Engineer that is dead reliant on an order of things to have stuff to clear, but step 6.1 does not have an order so you don't get to cancel stuff that hasn't quite happen yet (but is about to happen immedeately).
The Oblivion one at least is easy - Parviti isn't a legal target for oblivion. But I'm inclined to agree with Tesla that Engineer and Doctor apply their effects to wounds/conditions that existed on the model before step 6.1. It's the cleanest answer. (NB fortunately the same issue doesn't apply to protheion because protheion is additive and not dependent on other conditions so it's easy to resolve simultaneously with wounds)
I agree with this. I believe that in N4 Shock ammo will still kill the target regardless if the target is Doctored in the same order, meaning effectively the rolls are now made in isolation of each other instead of being indirectly opposed.
I think it will boil down to whether armour rolls are part of the effects or they are in their own specials category (something like 6.1.1) resolved immediately after the effects but before 6.1 is concluded. Personally I do not think Parvati should be able to heal damage that has not been resolved yet, but this is personal opinion.
Exactly, seems to fall in the same category as reveal HD troops with invalid AROs, RAW it's legal but feels wrong
