It might seem counter intuitive at first but it makes sense under the rules. Try playing marvel crisis protocol and understanding the way terrain, line of sight, and cover works in that game. Completely unintuitive especially coming from a game like infinity but makes sense works in the framework of their game. It might be something that feels bad now but there will be ways to play against it. Again none of this is new and is better than in n3 and that was one of the only ways to make melee units viable.
Whether it's allowed by the rules or not, the examples in the N4 rules don't treat this interaction like it exists, leaving it as something for the community to suss out, and with no examples indicating that it's possible. I guarantee CB doesn't play games like this.
"Melee Troops" IMO shouldn't be a thing in a game that touts itself as realistic Sci-Fi. There are models that are good in melee, but this game is and should be first and foremost a shooting game. You want to get int What melee troops are you referencing that don't have access to at least one of Smoke, a Marker State, or 2 Wounds? And most "Melee Troops" are decidedly CHEAP for the damage threat they represent. The game is trying to be a fairly "realistic" take on Sci-Fi Tabletop. Melee troops without a delivery system don't really work in that setting.
https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/interim-rules-announcement-aro-declarations-skill-requirements-cc-aro-baiting-etc.39477/#post-398947 Looks like it has been ruled out, for the moment at least.
Please show me where the game has been touting itself as a realistic sci fi game. This game is basically sci fi anime the game: in space.
https://infinitytheuniverse.com/games/infinity "Infinity is a 28mm metal miniatures game simulating special operations and skirmishes in a high technology sci-fi universe" "simulating special operations" Literally on the main page of the game. Now, yes, it's got a lot of Anime influences, but it tries to play pretty realistically with its fantasy elements. You don't have ninjas cutting bullets out of the air or anything. It's a very "low fantasy" take on Sci-fi, with only a handful of alien races, no laser beams, and no psychic/magic stuff.
There's also the fact that melee units get plenty of use without this, so people saying that this is needed for melee to be viable are wrong.
Are you new? I can’t imagine anyone who has seen the previous two editions of the rules (especially 2nd edition) coming away with the idea that their focus was on “realism”. :)
Not to take away from your point too much, but that game is a parody of simulators (and MMOs). Like using Archer as an example of how to run a spy network (or criminal organisation).
If realism was really an issue we would only have drones, automatic targeting and air strikes. Not such a fun game to play :)
None of the words you quoted, in any combination, mean realism. Metal Gear Solid, Rogue One and Archer are also "simulating special operations", and I doubt anyone would describe them as realistic. Anyway, close combat has been a main element of the game since day one.
Special operations. With big robots... Yeah, sure. CQC is more useful in Spec Ops than a big fucking robot, but yeah, keep thinking about realistic or mature...
Goat Simulator is a Parody; it's not supposed to be accurate OR realistic. *looks at the current issues with Guided Attack spam* You may not be far off there... I feel like we have different definitions of "Realistic" here, and perhaps that is a poor choice of words on my part. Would "grounded" be better? But it's a key difference between something like, say, Game of Thrones vs. something like Forgotten Realms. Game of Thrones is a much more "Realistic" setting, because it plays its Fantasy components extremely low to the ground. Very few fantasy races, few fantastic creatures, low-power magic that is uncommon, etc. Rogue One, to use your example, is among the most "Realistic" Star Wars movies, as both the Force and the various alien races are almost nonexistant. It's a very "low fantasy" approach to Star Wars; no space wizards, just boots on the ground doing whatever they can to fight the Empire. Archer, again, is a parody, so I don't know why you would include it as a serious example. The Metal Gear series, ironically, literally belongs to the "magic realism" genre of writing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_realism). Again, it's not so much whether or not what HAPPENS IN THE STORY is realistic, but how grounded the setting is with regards to things like technology. Metal Gear has a lot of tech that doesn't exist in the real world, but it plays fair with it once its in the setting (as long as you ignore Revengeance, which is pretty much straight Sci-Fi haha). My point was that Infinity, similarly, plays its Fantasy elements low to the ground. Sure, there are people with super-reflexes, but it's not because they "just trained harder" or because they unlocked some "special power" or "focused their will" or whatever; it's because they have Biochemical Enchancements, cybernetic implants, or an LHost body. Sure, it has Plasma weapons, but it's super rare even for the hyper-advanced Alien Race. It has CC models, but they can't just run through a hail of gunfire, deflecting bullets like this is Sword Art Online. Units in power armor actually have to respect infantry weapons; they can't just shrug off dozens of rifle hits like a Space Marine in Warhammer 40k. TAGs are more like early-generation Knightmares from Code Geass than miniature Gundams, etc etc etc. There are models that are good at CC, and that make sense in the setting, but this isn't a setting where you're going to have a bunch of infantry with Swords and Shields line up on one side of the map. Even the crazy Scotsmen with their starmetal swords have to respect the Shooting aspect of the game and use Smoke to close in. And that was my point. "Melee Troops" aren't really a thing in Infinity. There are models that are good in melee, and models that focus on melee, but the fact that those kind of models will be the "Troops" of any army is simply not the setting. The 45th rifles are described as "Too unruly to join the Caledonian regular forces," so they're not a good example. The other example is Myrmidons, but they're excellent at both CC and shooting with BS 12 and Mim(-6), so they're more of a super-elite force than a CC-focused one.
@Delta57Dash there are literal space werewolves and were bears in the game. Also how many models have swords out on the models even though they never get used in the game? This is no where close to a down to earth style realistic or simulation game. The anime and manga influences and aesthetics are quite clearly on the nose.
I feel like I have done a poor job of presenting my argument... I'm talking about the overall feeling of the setting, not the individual elements of it. Take, say, Zoro from One Piece. He's a swordsman, something that is pretty historically accurate. His abilities to swing his sword and cut through entire ships, or use his Willpower to see the future, are NOT, and furthermore they may not even be consistent from one chapter to the next in how exactly the work/what they can do (disclaimer: One Piece is very internally consistent. Other Anime are less so). Now go to Infinity and take, say, a Knight of Santiago. Obviously, power armor of that caliber doesn't exist and is therefore not realistic. However, once you accept that his power armor exists within the setting, its ability to block damage and enhance his strength is played straight, with very little "mythical" or "mystical" elements. I guess that's a better way to put it? Low "mystical" setting? I don't know. The point is that, given the setting, an unenhanced human with a normal steel weapon is not going to cut it in melee. And, given that most Line Troops in the game are pretty normal, unenhanced, and with fairly mundane weapons, "Melee Line Troops" aren't going to be a thing. Even Morats, crazy monkeys that they are, aren't dumb enough to just run into melee through a hail of gunfire. Is this making sense? I'm not trying to say that the game is a milsim or super-hard Sci-Fi. Just that it has a fairly... "grounded" approach to how it uses its fantastical elements.
Except no one in this game uses normal steel blades... And even if they cant cut through the armor, can damage the synth muscles or cause internal damage by simply hit the enemy
I do think you're making a good argument. It's difficult when it's so easy to pick a single element and just go full WhatAboutThism. Still doesn't mean I agree that Infinity is described as "realistic". It sets out to simulate special ops (unsaid: within the setting), which isn't the same as a simulator that are called simulator because those games tries to simulate a part of reality. Instead it's more like... a simulator iff there's a virus that makes people give birth to werewolves and bringing an unwieldy and heavy sword to a gun fight makes sense.
Bringing a sword to a gunfight would make a bit of sense if there were smoke grenades that worked like that.
